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8th Ed. Analyzing Kroxigor!

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, May 4, 2015.

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How competitive do you belive Kroxigor units are?

  1. Completely Overpowered.... absolute autoinclude

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  2. Very Powerful... a solid competitive choice

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%

  3. Well Balanced... worth their points

    26 vote(s)
    42.6%

  4. Underpowered... there are much better choices, but they still have some uses

    32 vote(s)
    52.5%

  5. Useless... they have no place in any competitive Lizardmen army

    2 vote(s)
    3.3%
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    NIGHTBRINGER Ulthwé Craftworld

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    How would you change Kroxigor in order to make them a valuable worthwhile competitive choice? The aim is to make them a solid competitive choice but not overpowered.

    • How many points would you decrease (or increase) them by?
    OR

    • What stats boost or abilities would you give them (or take away from them)?

    Some ideas that I think would make them competitive at their current points cost would be..

    3+ scaly skin and +1 initiative
    or
    5+ regeneration save
    or
    Toughness 5
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, May 4, 2015
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    Qupakoco Ctho Craftworld Staff Member

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    How about impact hits like Ogres? That would be a huge difference.

    Or how about a generic Krox hero? Limit him to 25points of magic junk and a minor stat boost.

    EDIT

    As for a point decrease, somewhere around 10 knocked off would make them considerably more attractive.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    Qupakoco, May 4, 2015
    #2
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    NIGHTBRINGER Ulthwé Craftworld

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    Those are both great ideas! Impact hits would be indeed very helpful.

    As for a Kroxigor character, I'd love to see Nakai make a comeback. He was the one character I was most hoping for when our current army book was released. GW can take back Chakax and Tiktaq'to in exchange for Nakai!
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, May 4, 2015
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    The Sauric Ace Dorhai Craftworld

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    Fluff wise they are suppose to be crocodile men, right? So impact hits isn't totally off. Maybe give them an even better impact hit when they charge from aquatic environment?
     
    The Sauric Ace, May 4, 2015
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    rantapanda Biel-Tan Craftworld

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    3+ armour and T5 would make them worthwhile. maybe even good. playtesting would tell us that.
     
    rantapanda, May 4, 2015
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    Pinktaco Ctho Craftworld Staff Member

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    I think there's an issue on your question. Personally I find them balanced, but wouldn't that make them usable I'm competitive terms? Imo not really.

    Considering that they pack S5 (7), PF and scaly skin 4+ I think their price is fine. I don't consider them to be overpriced. The issue come from how great weapons work meaning that they rely on getting flank charges, not to mention their limite role in general. Besides they aren't ideal targets for augments, besides + To Hit spells.

    Strictly competitively speaking you'd want the most efficient unit. In our case that would be our characters they are faster, have more attacks each model, higher chance of hitting and vastly more defensive. Not to mention their multiple purpose role.

    So again I do find kroxigors to be good and balanced, but unfortunately for them, strictly competitively speaking we have cowboys as the better alternative.

    Could they work in casual/friendly environment (=not min/max builds? Yeah I Very much think so.

    Anyway with that said I think they're very hard to change. We cannot possibly give them stuff like 5+ regen. It would be nice, but that would make them way too powerful for what we pay and what we pay for is the unique option to take a S7 monstrous infantry unit that can potentially generate more attacks.

    What would make them better? Giving PF to second rank and allowing the dumb troglodon to use its roar on all friendly models across the entire board every round. Or within 12" lol.

    I think with kroxigors we need to look at maximising their damage output because that's what they are. Also fluff wise it wouldn't make sense to give them +3 scaly skin.

    Personally I find the models, with the exception of PF as mentioned, to be near perfect. Do remember that our book is very well balanced, however, it's because we're up against super ridiculousness such as warrior of chaos in general, elfs and especially white lions etc. A lot of the armies have overpowered must have units and you can complain all you like, but our book wasn't made like that. The biggest fvck-up is the troglodon and to a degree nerfing CoRs.
     
    Pinktaco, May 4, 2015
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    Pinktaco Ctho Craftworld Staff Member

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    That would make them utterly ridiculous xD
     
    Pinktaco, May 4, 2015
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    NIGHTBRINGER Ulthwé Craftworld

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    I think giving them both those upgrades without an increase in points might make them too powerful.
    I feel they need a slight boost in order to be well balanced, nothing major, just a small tweak
    You might be right about the 5+ regen, but possibly a 6+ regen then. Or bringing their armour save down to 3+.

    That is debatable (just not on the forum). Roughly two thirds of this forum already interpret the current rules this way

    Not necessarily. They could be given light armour for the same effect.

    But there is a great deal of that kind of ridiculousness around. Monstrous Cavalry seems far superior to monstrous infantry. For instance, consider how poorly Kroxigor match up against Skullcrushers or Demigryphs.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, May 4, 2015
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    n810 Dorhai Craftworld

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    maybe just Toughness 5 to make them more different from Saurus.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    n810, May 4, 2015
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    NIGHTBRINGER Ulthwé Craftworld

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    I like toughness 5 on them, it really helps them out against mass numbers of S4 attacks. Plus it makes sense fluffwise that they should be tougher than saurus.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, May 4, 2015
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    The Sauric Ace Dorhai Craftworld

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    Off Topic: @NIGHTBRINGER Was that the reply that added the final tally to your posts, in order of making it to Carnosaur?
     
    The Sauric Ace, May 4, 2015
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    NIGHTBRINGER Ulthwé Craftworld

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    That is correct. A Carnosaur I am... rooooaaar!
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, May 4, 2015
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    FRYtheEGGofQUANGO Dorhai Craftworld

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    Any (or combo) of: T5/ swiftstride/ ws4/ stubborn/ pred fighter generated from sup attacks/ armour upgrade or auto armour upgrade/ Killing Blow/ Armour Piercing/ Devastating charge... Also, lowered points cost.
    And if they needed to be balanced back, give them stupidity(?).

    ... or teach the writer of the next lizardmen army book about internal balance?
     
    FRYtheEGGofQUANGO, May 4, 2015
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    Caprasauridae Alaitoc Craftworld

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    I would like to see them something that increases their survivability. Toughness 5 would be beautiful, it feels utterly stupid they have the same toughness than Saurus. Swiftstride or anything else that helps them to get to battle quicker would be much appreciated, too. Or some sort of special Ambush rule, that allows them to come on to the board from sides or something?
     
    Caprasauridae, May 4, 2015
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    NIGHTBRINGER Ulthwé Craftworld

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    I agree. I feel it is their lack of survivability (coupled with ASL) that is their downfall. Improved toughness, armour or a weak regen (5 or 6) would seem like obvious candidates to help alleviate this.
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, May 4, 2015
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    Eyeless1 Biel-Tan Craftworld

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    Either t5 or 3+ armr save
     
    Eyeless1, May 4, 2015
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    NIGHTBRINGER Ulthwé Craftworld

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    How does everyone feel about a 5+ regen vs. toughness 5?
     
    NIGHTBRINGER, May 4, 2015
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    Sleboda Iyanden Craftworld

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    This.
     
    Sleboda, May 4, 2015
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    FRYtheEGGofQUANGO Dorhai Craftworld

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    Tbh i feel that a lot of the lizardmen should have regen saves, but it makes less sense for kroxigor to have it when compared to the rest of the army.
     
    FRYtheEGGofQUANGO, May 4, 2015
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    laribold Ulthwé Craftworld

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    Give them light armour for that 3+ AS and allow them to take Musicians.
    The armour is not a huge upgrade but as has been said, it'd really help against high volume, low S attacks.
    (how about have them all wear Stegadon Helms for +1 AS and one Impact Hit? They are strong enough to wear these heavy skulls and would be super nice and relatively fluffy...)

    The Musician upgrade would just immeasurably help using them on the table. Some sort of huge drum would be fitting
     
    laribold, May 4, 2015
    #20
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