8th Ed. Designing a flying circus list - help needed!

Hey guys, after a recent tourney game against a mate of mine I've discovered a love for ripperdactyls, for their cost I think the toad rules are absolutely fantastic. With this in mind I've decided to take an idea I had for another army and change it to the lizards rules. It's very left field but I think it will look fantastic on the table: a Steampunk/WW1 themed Goblin army! The idea is to max out comical WW1 style goblin biplanes for terradons, single winged 'fighters' as ripperdactyls, a couple of heroes on ripperdactyls as character hunters (the toad rules still apply to their mounts, and I'll have three toads to drop on their units), tik'taq'to to lead the reserve wing of 'bombers' in, and the core filled with skinks. The tournament I'm preparing for is this time next year and should be the same as this year, 3000pts including Storm of Magic/Monsterous Arcanum. I'm planning on including two magma dragon 'airships' for the heavy hitting, so the rest will really be MSU grind. However I need some help with the design. Here's what Ive limited myself to:

Slaan (Ogre general in observation balloon)

Tetto'Ekko (Goblin artillery general in observation balloon, auto-include due to rules, comet for artillery barrage, and vanguard for my magma dragons for hilarity!)

Tiq'tac'to (Goblin in triplane, leads the reenforcement bombers)

Skink chiefs on ripperdactyls (at least one, for the red barron!)

Skink priest with feather-cloak thingy (goblin with parachute, conduit for the slaan)

Skink skirmishers w/ blowpipes (Gretchin with bluderbuss style guns, no javs because no shields)
Skink cohorts w/ krox (gretchin with a bit of armour & shields, ogres as krox)

Ripperdactyls (Goblin single-wing planes, three units of these but unsure of size)
Terradons (Goblin biplanes, again probably three units, one of which four strong to come in with tiqtacto in a 'v' formation for cool factor)

Salamanders/razordons (artillery teams w/ ogre loader)

2x Magma Dragons (zeppelins on 100x150mm bases, mostly grot crew but one ogre with giant cannon at the front to represent the S6 breath weapon)

So no saurus of any kind (orcs are a little too far of a stretch) & no monsters aside from those dragons, can you guys help me put together an effective list? Cheers!

Arfa

 

Tiq Tac can't lead units.

I know it sounds retarded, but that is unfortunately the truth. Of course, with a list like that, I would try talking to your oppponent and ask him if you can, before the game starts.

Otherwise, the idea sounds incredibly cool. Could take an Oldblood on a "Carpet" and give him a jetpack or something, just to stick with the theme.

 

That sounds fantastic, I can't wait to see all the lovely conversions.

 

I can't think of anyone who would ever not accept Tiq Tac can join his unit. I wouldn't even mention it. The skink chief unfort cant.


Anyways the conversions sound amazing, Would love to see it.

 

I know as of yet tictaqto cant lead units but by the time this army is finished Im betting on the inevitable FAQ to come out lol. The skink cheifs cant sure, but thats okay theyre more for lone ranger style roles, similar to what I'd be using a peg captain with in my empire. Plus as I said, their riperdactyls still get extra attacks from the toads, so I think they'll make excellent character hunters with those extra killing blow attacks! As for the old blood, I know it'd be cool and good but as I'm already making a lot of 'counts as' stuff here I dont want to make it too confusing for people, so Im just sticking to ogres and goblins.

Anyway I'm really glad you guys like the idea, but I still need advice as to how to go about creating the list. Im thinking ethereal Slaan as there is no temple guard to put him in, and Im thinking loremaster high magic which I can chop and change depending on what Im playing, or is the sig spell list a better choice? Brand new to Lizards here (play Empire, O&G & WoC) so any help would be appreciated guys!

Arfa

 

Oh, how I wish optimism was contagious.

I still think the next "FAQ/Erreta will be released INCLUDED in the 9th edition Lizardmen book. I am certainly nmot holding my breath, after waiting MONTHS for FAQS people have been asking about since the release of the army book.

But I don't think too many would complain here. After all, a quick glance at his entry would make it PAINFULLY obvious that he was intended to be placed in units. the only people I know wouldn't allow it, likely wouldn't allow such a heavily converted army, anyway.

 

I really like this concept. I'm on my phone, so my notes will be limited:

I think the rippers will be your ability to finish off tough/opportune targets-along with the dragons. I would take 3 units for 3 blot toads. On unit sizes, you'll find that ripper units need to be a little bigger (like 5-6) for best effect ( low Init being the main driver). Iwould say 1 or 2 should be this size and the other (s) should be min size.

I might argue that your bsb should by flying too-to help you control your rippers/terras/dragons when you need it most.

I have more thoughts-but my swipe feature has me frustrated. Will try to tespond more on Monday.

 

Some other ideas to help improve competitiveness. If it doesn't fit your theme - that's ok - just to suggest so that you have the opportunity to consider it.

Chameleons - at least 1 unit of 5. This unit's main goal is to protect your Vanguard moves. With your current list though, you look to have somewhere between 6 and 9 Vanguard units. If you can place your chameleons before your opponent either places scouts or gets a vanguard move (if he wins the vanguard roll-off, for instance), then you will allow yourself the opportunity to make those vanguard moves more advantageous.

Skink Chiefs - I would probably lean towards TerraChiefs - but definitely include one on a Ripper for the Red Baron! Reasoning here is mostly control - you want to have control of them, imo.

Not sure how specific you want your list advice. Trying to keep it a little more broad for ya. Hoped this helped!

 

Cheers GhostWarrior! I could do cham skinks, just paint them up as sneaky commando grotz so theres no issue there. As for the terra-chiefs, what would they be doing? On paper Im not seeing them being hitty enough to actually worry my opponent (for their cost you're looking at a decent skarvet after all), and I can keep the frenzied ripers within 12" of my general first turn before they go character hunting. It also means they wont be running away when one of my many skink units evaporates off the table with a round of magic missiles. On that note anyway, just how many chiefs do you think I should take?

Also speaking of lords, Im thinking this build for my Slaan:

Slaan - BSB, Higher state of consciousness, harmonic convergence, focus of mystery, soul of stone, channelling staff, obsidian amulet, banner of swiftness

So he's stupidly expensive for sure, but as I dont have any temple guard Im kind've thinking ethereal might be the way to go. I'll have a LOT of units to screen him with and my chaff removal is second to none. 2++ against spells, 4++ against magical cannonballs and immune to all non-magical warmachines. Banner of swiftness will help him run away from stuff coming for him as well. Harmonic convergence with channelling staff seems to be a good option for both magical offence and defence (especially as I wont be having a dispel scroll) and so Im pretty much forced to take soul of stones to try and prevent a dimensional cascade ruining my day. Loremaster High magic seems to be the best option for lores too, it provides a nice rounded tournament lore and I can swap out for spells if needed. Beasts on my lvl1 for wildforming ripperdactyls and heavens on tettoeko for more board clearance. The only other lore Im considering on my mage is shadow as both the slaan and cloak of feathered skink priest are both infantry, so smoke and mirrors could be hilarious. If I did take that this would be the build:

Slaan - BSB, higher state of consciousness, harmonic convergence, soul of stone, unfathomable presence, channelling staff, dragonbane gem, banner of swiftness, lore of shadow

That means there is a 1/3 chance that my MR is reduced to just a 3++ for a turn, but it also means I'll get a 2++ against skullcannons and rune of flaming dwarf cannons, leaving pretty much just other dwarf runes and hellcannons to worry about as far as ranged shots are concerned. In both cases I do have points for an enchanted item though, should I go even more expensive and put a potion of healing in there just in case? They're only going to get one shot off on him after all (I think I've got enough flying warmachine hunters in the list ). That said, thats a lot of points to put into one character for survivability! What do you all think?

Finally, if I do go with shadow do you think I should double up on my flying lvl1 beastpriests? I can go one cloak of feathers and one carpet after all, and that would give me double the wysans to cast (S5 ripperdactyls sound fun ) and also double the opportunities to smoke and mirrors with? They're not cheap mind, sitting at 115pts each. Hrm. Anyway cheers for the help guys, Im always keen to run new ideas past people with a bit more experience than myself!

Arfa

 

Okay, I started to crunch the numbers and realised Id completely underestimated the amount I'd be spending in core and rare lol, so its pure rippers now! Here is my first draft:

Slann - BSB, higher state of consciousness, harmonic convergence, soul of stone, unfathomable presence, channelling staff, dragonbane gem, banner of swiftness, lore of shadow -

Tetto'eko -

Skink Priest - lvl1, lore of beasts, cloak of feathers -

Skink Chief - Ripperdactyl, charmed shield, opal amulet, egg of quango, light armour, spear, shield - 134pts

12x Skink Skirmishers - blowpipes, brave -
12x Skink Skirmishers - blowpipes, brave -
12x Skink Skirmishers - blowpipes, brave -
12x Skink Skirmishers - blowpipes, brave -

16x Skink Cohort - muso, standard, 2x Kroxigors -
16x Skink Cohort - muso, standard, 2x Kroxigors -

5x Ripperdactyls -
5x Ripperdactyls -
5x Ripperdactyls -

Magma Dragon -
Magma Dragon -

LORDS - 535pts
HEROES - 419pts
CORE - 776pts
SPECIAL - 600pts
RARE - 670pts

TOTAL - 3000pts

Should be bloody hilarious to play with! What do you think?

Arfa

 

Sorry Scalenex, a lot of forums have different rules on the posting of points costs, most of the ones Im on (or mod) are fine with the total cost but not with breaking down the cost (xpts for spear, xpts for magic item, total of xpts etc). No harm meant

The blowpipe gobbo's are definitely worse than the jav ones yeah, but as Ill be using the gretchin models from 40k modified to have blunderbusses rather than rifles, and I cant really give them shields without really making the models look bad. The twin pistol or pistol and hand weapon ones are easy to switch to pistol and shield, so they'll be my cohort models. Also I dont have to double-tap the shots if I dont want to, so if Im hitting on 7's against massed T3 Ill double tap but if Im hitting on 6's with anything higher I'll just go the one. One of the concessions I had to make in the list, but cheers for pointing that out for me! Do you think the list will be alright to play? Also is the Slann (cheers for the spelling ) build right for ethereal?

Arfa

 

Cool theme!

A note on the poison-shots: it's always better to hit on a poison 6 than on a 7, no matter the targets toughness, even if you get twice the shots.

against T3 it's 6 4 4 at 7 to hit. With 2 shots that's the same as:
6 4 to get a wound.

With 6 to hit with poison you only need one 6 to get the wound through, regardless of the targets T.

 

Double post.

 

RE the Chief on ripper not being able to join units, is there anything written down prohibiting this yet or are still waiting for confirmation? Most of my opponents allow it because of logic and GW's tendency to not double check their writing, but if there has been some clarification then I'd love to know!

 

It's under the "character joining units" section.
They can't join units of fliers, monsters, chariots or swarms.

 

The "problem", with the reasoning on that page is that it says "it would be too dangerouus to be near them", which it obviously wouldn't if they were also of the same type.

It is quite obviously a blatant mistake on GWs part, unless they honestly intended him to only give the special rule to his own ripper, and nothing else.

But that would make him extremely overcosted for what he actually does. A standard chief would be better + far cheaper.

 

Your Chief's ripperdactyl as per rule as written is not allowed any extra toad rage attacks as per their rules section in the book, that rule is only included at the Ripperdactyl unit's page, while it seem your group is of different oppinion and would likely allow it, i just felt i needed to mention it, since you keep emphasizing that it is the case, which it is, indeed, not.

 

Looks like a lot of fun and a headache for anyone who plays against it. Based on your theme it seems like tetto'eko would be on his own? Not sure, but I always put him in a bunker he is a favorite target. Also kudos for going lore of shadow on the slann should be a lot of fun with this army although death would also be a good choice also because the attribute can get you more dice if you feel you are lacking. And my final thought although I'm not really sure is would you be better off with (5) 3 man ripper units or more flexibility and more targets? It seems to me you could 3 groups; one with your chief and the others with 2 ripper units. It gives some more flexibility and preserves unit strength on stand and shoot reactions and facing warmachines. A hellblaster can wipeout 5 rippers in one unit, but if you send two units of 3 it still dies next turn. The only downside is that it makes charges a little dicey because you need to roll to get both units in, but the are fliers so I don't know. Food for thought; unless I'm totally missing something obvious. Good luck; I'm sure it will look awesome.

 

I actually just remembered that you're limited to 0-3 selections of a special unit type so I thought my last point was moot, but I usually play games <2500 pts. Doesn't 3000 pts count as a grand army and the restrictions are doubled and tripled if you somehow manage to play at 6000 pts? Can anyone clarify this for me?