8th Ed. I've seen the light. Our premium frog is freaking amazing

OK hyperbole aside hear me out.

Some months ago we had quite a discussion on the board about our dear frog (the Slann). I argued that I'd love a Skink High Priest because I didn't feel Mr Froggie was worth it.
I think some of that could be due to bad WoM (Winds of Magic) rolls and miscasts blowing big holes in my guard unit. Maybe also my low skill level.

So.. I decided to give it a go. People told me he was awesome so I'd better try harder. Aaaaand .. it worked
I'm not sure what to say, but I've been shutting down magic phases like they weren't there to begin with and been putting out A LOT of spells.

Now, before I write further I'd like to state this: I do not, as of yet, play at tournaments, but against friends and strangers at various experience level. This, however, is what I'm certain most of us are up against, however, from what I can understand the Slann is also a beast even at tournaments.

Right, so there are some very obvious things about the slann and some maybe not so obvious.. to some.

The basics:

- Premium price tag.
- +4 ward.
- 5 wound + T4.
- Can hide + makes guards stubborn.
- Can shoot damage spells through skinks within 24".

Some of these are very important (obviously), but are also things that people are very easy to "forget" when discussing his price tag. 5 wounds is flat out sick. He's tough as nails to kill just like that. He can take a beating alright. Obviously if we put him in the open he's quite vulnerable, but otherwise you won't see him dying just like that. In fact mine has never really died to something I couldn't have prevented. It's always something ultra lame that gets him.

Hiding with guards actually have a side effect. Or the opposite effect of what some might think .. or want. Consider this: The frog will easily be 400-450pts + 100pts general and maybe 100pts BSB (if he dies). The guards are also easily 400-500pts so we're very easily looking at a unit worth 1000pts IF your opponent can take it out. Kill the slann, win the game.

Why is this a big deal? Because *one* of the reasons we hate the saurus warriors is because people can, if they want to, completely avoid them. The guard unit works as a magnet for good and bad. This is also why I always have 26-30 guards + razor banner. They're stubborn so they can take a beating and dish out. From my experience.

This isn't for everyone and the risk of miscast is ever looming. At any rate I don't fear going into combat with my slann's guard unit because they can usually hold out. unless it's a doom bull.. or a white lion horde.. or witch elf horde.. or a gutstar horde, but besides ridiculousness they can do their job.

Shooting through skink priests IMO is almost ridiculous. We practically have 24 more inches than any other army with no penalty. I mean yeah the skink also suffers from miscasts, but other than that it's quite amazing the way I see it. If used properly it gives a near complete range of the board.

Looking at it we're paying 135pts (compared to a naked lvl 3 emprie lord mage) for lvl 4, +4 ward, +2 wounds, shooting through skinks and hiding with guards. That's not bad.

Here's the thing though. All of that is nice, but what I argued before was that.. maybe I dont always want that? Maybe I just want a cheap lvl 4 skink priest and a kitted out OB? Well we can't have that so.. there's that.

With the Slann I feel it's kind of a "go big or go home" deal and this is also when he becomes a beast. Again, sometimes a 200pts priest would've been lovely compared to 400pts slann, but unfortunately that's probably never going to happen.

So the kit I've been running for some time is:

- store a DD and restor it as a PD.
- Reroll Failed Dispel attempt(s).
- The channel monster combo.
- All signature spells.

I realize that wandering deliberation might not be what people prefer and that's fine, but I've always prefered it (compared to loremaster) since the book released. It's just such a great tool box and since I'm not up against these uber ridiculous lists where Lore of Death is mandatory it's quite fine.

Recently I've grown fond of getting iceshard blizzard + mystifying miasma off on one unit. If you can get lucky against WS4 models they'll be hitting on 6+, otherwise we're looking at 5+ which is very good when our guard unit is hitting them.

Today I did the same thing against the 2 attacks (can't remember name) knights from brittonia who wanted to charge my lone scar vet. The stupid thing decided to fail stupidity and stumple a whole 6" at his direction. With said spells none of his sick amount of attacks got through and if it wasn't because I wiffed my attacks I would've either won the combat or at the very least had a good chance of staying and slaughtering them.

Having all signature spells is afterall "only" a tool box and so it lacks uber spells, but I'm fine without. I've been so until now atleast. I use salamanders for big blocks and so far they've done wonderfully. At first I was like "yeah I'll never get them into such a good position again in any other game". Then I did it again and I continued to do so. These guys will wreck things if left to it, barring the occasional miscast (which is basically non-existant compared to other's).

The strenght in my build doesn't necessarily lie in what is obvious, but how it makes me feel. I feel confident with my slann. yes every once in a blue moon I'll roll snake eye, not channel and fail my 2+ to get an additional PD, but besides that I feel that my slann is very powerful.

an average WoM roll will be 7. A single priest will roughly generate 2 extra dice in the game (on average and on 6 turns). The slann 12.
When it's my opponent's turn it's not unheard of me having the same amount of DD as he has PD. Here's the difference though and this is very important, at least to me.
Normally you want to make sure your opponent doesn't get his spell through so you'll quite commonly throw 1 more dice than him. Just to make sure. This is many times a mistake, but if I know that I can reroll my first failed dispel attempt each round I'll take more risks. Taking more risks means that on average (without having actually written down my own actual results lol) I'll more than likely dispel my opponents spell, compared to previously, BEFORE applying the reroll. So in other words I'm taking a risk and because of that I'm actually "winning" my dispels more than I'd usually do without having used my free reroll. The free reroll makes me take more risks and as a reward I actually dispel more on average.

This is huge to me.

It obviously depends on people because some a bigger risk-takers than others, but to me this makes a big difference.

Some spells I let through though. People will want to trick me into using my DD on something they don't really need so they can get off their really important spells. I'm fine with that, my goal is to save 1 dice anyway.

Having a scroll though is also a part of the plan. I'll obviously use it at times where it's the most needed (to avoid nastyness), but it gives me a boost because if my opponent rolls 10+ for WoM and I'm far away I can shut down his other spells, scroll the important one and *likely* gain a PD in return.

So generally speaking I feel very powerful with the Slann. The game isn't just about getting magic off it's also about making sure the opponent doesn't get anything off. Gaining an average of +2 dice for my own magic phase is important. Having 8 signature spells of low casting value means that I'm basically spamming things left, right and center.

And what should my opponent stop? Wyssans will make our guards stupidly good, iceshard is very good against low Ld armies (humans, ogres, beastmem), earthblood is a weak healing spell, but non the less it can heal a nearby character otherwise 5+ regen on top of 4+ save isn't bad where I come from. Searing doom is always great for those 2+ save unit that the game is full of. Spirit leech can easily pick off lone monsters, chariots and what not. Hell a razorgor is basically dead unless I flop my roll. Boosted shem's on undead and demons? How about those 2D6 S6. hits?

The nearest competitor in terms of amount of spells is obviously Loremaster of High Magic and it's a neat lore. Mostly for the attribute though, but it's a completly different beast and you won't have your spells right off the bat. With WD you do. You're pretty much guaranteed to have spells you can use one way or another. With Loremaster you'll have to acquire it through succesfully getting a spell off, usually something you don't really need (because you wouldn't want to forget a spell you need, right). So you're "paying" for a spell, by getting off something semi-useless/useful compared to just having it. Now I'm not hating on Loremaster, but I do prefer WD.

That's just my point of view though. Loremaster can be very good if used properly.

The thing with WD is that I'm pretty much always sure to get something off. That's not always the case with other lores or high magic. The small spells might seem to not make the biggest impact on their own, but I find their usefulness to be in their subtlety.

For instance:

White lions (6 wide, 2 fighting ranks + champ) against templeguards (6 wide + 1 fighting rank) with slann.
Both have 19 attacks counting champs and predatory fighter (average roll should give 2 additional attacks).

In the case that we can modifiy their To Hit just by 1 (either from iceshard or by getting off mystifying miasma) we'll both do 8 wounds to each other.
Now lets assume we got off miasma with a roll of 3-4 giving them -2 to their WS.
We'd now be doing 10,5 wounds compared to their 8 wounds and actually be winning.
Without anything we'd do 8 wounds to them and they 10,5 to us.

So ONE spell made, IMO, a big difference and their silly banner can't save them against a hex. And that's not even stacking multiple spells or assuming anything crazy.

How about just wyssans wildform with same unit?
Helfs: 8,30 wounds.
Guards: 8 wounds.

Earthblood:
Helfs: 7.
Guards: 8

More unlikely scenarios:

Miasma (reducing them to WS3) + iceshard

Helfs: 5,3.
Guards: 10,5.

Iceshard + earthblood:

Helfs: 5.3.
Guards: 8.

And so on...

Can't they just counter us by hexing us? Sure and high elfs are quite potent in their own magic phase with the Book of Hoeth, but it won't grant them any more dice and their spells will never be quite as low in terms of casting value not to mention that their lvl 4 mage will still only have 4 spells. This makes it easier for us to block their useful spells compared to them having to block 4 different low casting value augments/hexes.

Also for those who really want to shut down their magic phase one could bring an additional scroll caddy, with the cube.

Anyway I think I've made my point. Now do consider that this works in my gaming group/area. For others it might not work as well, but so far my slann have been a beast who very frequently gains 10 PD, spam spells and shuts down magic phases.

You are free to think otherwise, but from my perspective the slann is worth it and with his super range and amount of spells there's never something I can't do unless I've hindered myself.

Sorry for the long post

 

Re: I've seen the light. Our premium frog is freaking amazin

Heaven is also one of my favorite lores. Good buff/hexes, high damage spells and the comet is good vs gunlines and to dictate movement. If you run a lvl 2 heaven priest and lvl 4 heaven slann you can better get the spells you want on your slann, by rolling first for the skink. Besides if I'm not mistakening heaven is a relatively low casting value lore.