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AoS NEW *rumor*

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Logan8054, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    I really wish they'd state how many factions they're going for. Cuz they're pumping stuff out at an alarming rate while old stuff is rarely updated. Even if you look at something like tzeentch, it's been 2 or 3 years and all you've gotten is 1 model some endless spells and a rules update. In the same time we've had like 15 entire new factions worth of stuff released. You'd think with that much new stuff the existing factions would get some more love than 1 new model and a basic update, if only to put the spotlight on them for a little while so some less popular models might get sold cuz they're good now...

    Seriously though, we've had like 10 full blown proper new factions since tzeentch alone, several SCE chambers, complete rewrites from the ground up of several factions (e.g. LoN, Ogors, Skaven..). God knows how much we've had since our tome was released. Its getting absurd.
     
  2. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    the worst part is every one was saposed to be updated by the end of 2019 i guess that didn't work out
     
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  3. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    34 batle tomes 5 campaign books 3 generals handbooks and 12 wight dwarf magazines that had aos rules in them
     
  4. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Probably, completely new faction is just easier to sell. Or they try to release a lot of stuff and look, which are get popular enough to keep them updated (like SCE) or wich can be abandoned.
     
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  5. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    An updated to an existing faction creates a bump in popularity, allowing you to sell some left-over stock. And since you already have that laying around anyway saves production costs. Not to mention the cost of designing new stuff, new molds etc.

    Plus, quickly releasing armies, and abandoning old ones, in a hobby that relies on the urge to collect seems like a poor businessstrategy. If nothing else the occasional update to an existing army will get all those collectors of faction X to immeadiatly buy the new thing cuz their collection is no longer complete.

    Generally GW's marketing is just weird..
     
  6. Kilvakar
    Carnasaur

    Kilvakar Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think it has to do with GW not liking Seraphon, I really do agree that it's probably more to do with them just not having a clear idea of what they want to do with the faction. I wonder if there's any way possible to actually get a hold of people there to pick their brains and see why they're having a hard time coming up with stuff for the Seraphon.
     
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  7. Just A Skink
    Skink Chief

    Just A Skink Well-Known Member

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    I think GW originally said that each faction would be receive updates in 2019. I may be unclear on that, because many people started saying each army after that. So, I don't know if that's just what people inferred, or if that was actually stated by GW. It came pretty close to each army either way.
     
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  8. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    I think, they stated that every battletome get updated in two years at the end of 2018 or at the beginning of 2019, I can't recall. This means that they are still on schedule.
     
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  9. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    If we don’t get the battletome we need, we can use the one @Erta Wanderer and I wrote!

    shameless self promotion is shameless

    edit; with warscrolls in the making!
     
  10. Just A Skink
    Skink Chief

    Just A Skink Well-Known Member

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    I know it's been discussed on this thread previously, but I also think GW could be "struggling" with what to do with our army. I mean, they have taken our primary army abilities (summoning & teleportation) and given them to virtually every other army in some capacity. When you come back to the original army, how do you make that army feel fresh?
     
  11. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    They could add back stuff that was removed from the old world, or they could add more stuff to us like celestial meteors, or seraphon units causing penalties to hit as they are blinded or burned by us. More space stuff would be cool
     
  12. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    I think they made some bad choices in that regard, not every army needs a teleport. They should have kept it for a few select factions.
     
  13. Tk'ya'pyk
    Skar-Veteran

    Tk'ya'pyk Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... I'm going to assume Tzeentch in January, KO in February. Pointy Aelves won't be out until Spring 2020, so assume April. Maybe March will be our month. The March of the Saurus Legions!
     
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  14. Carnikang
    Carnasaur

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Tzeentch and KO are out next week...
     
  15. Tk'ya'pyk
    Skar-Veteran

    Tk'ya'pyk Well-Known Member

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    Even better! Tzeentch and KO in January, that leaves Feb and March for a possible Seraphon book before Pointy Aelfs come out in April or May!
     
  16. Kilvakar
    Carnasaur

    Kilvakar Well-Known Member

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    BIG post incoming, sorry in advance! TL,DR at the bottom :)

    Yeah, that's probably what they're thinking as well. When releasing new battletomes, they seem to prefer big re-works over minor buffs and balance changes. In fact, they're really not concerned with balance at all, since each new faction that comes out contributes more and more to the power-creep. I have a feeling they'd rather re-work Seraphon than just buff them to be able to stand up to the other factions. But coming up with an entire new gimmick for an existing faction is probably hard when you've been releasing so many new factions, each with new gimmicks of their own.

    This could be a big part of why they don't know what to do with us. Do they stick with the Aztec/Mayan theme of seemingly primitive warriors who secretly have insanely powerful magic and tech granted to them by gods who were around even before the world began? Or do they "modernize" the Seraphon and give them more spacey abilities. Could definitely see them agonizing over that, especially since Stormcast were essentially "let's try and get a space marine-esque faction into fantasy because 40k is more popular."

    Couldn't agree more. They're cool mechanics, to be sure. But not every army needs them, nor does it even make sense for every army to have them. But we all know that GW seems to do things more based on the Rule of Cool than on what actually makes sense. Thus the continued power-creep...

    I would rather them stick with the old Aztec theme and focus more on improving our magic and unit strength. Keep what we have (summoning, teleporting), but make the Slann better wizards with a way to get their own bonus to casting. Un-nerf Lord Kroak! Lore-wise he should be even more powerful than Nagash, but with Nagash being one of the two main characters in the lore as of now I can't see them doing that, unless they actually wanted to make Seraphon more relevant to the main story. Currently the main story of AoS is basically Sigmar vs. Nagash with Chaos being a pain in the butt every once in a while. All the other factions are just trying to survive or fighting because that's what they do. The Seraphon are the only faction to actually survive from the old world (faction, not individual characters.) and their goal is to stop Chaos, which should still be the main villains of the setting. Seraphon deciding to get down to business and actively go head-to-head with Chaos and the Skaven once again would make for a really interesting story.

    As for our units, Saurus are supposed to be incredibly strong warriors. The regular warriors should get better saves and rend, while the guard should get two wounds and better saves to make them the defensive units they're supposed to be. Skinks are fine as they are, they serve their purpose well. We just need to have options other than skink spam, lol! Knights need better movement and either a buff to defense or offense. Make them into tanky cavalry that can charge into combat and then hold the line, or make them deal more damage so that when they attack it actually feels like a cavalry charge. I would personally prefer the offensive option. They are lizardmen riding velociraptors, after all ;) Carnosaurs should be some of our most killy units, but also be able to survive more than one round in combat with another monster or units of troops. If they wanted, they could lean more into the "monster hunter" role for them and make them really good at taking out other monsters/mounted characters, our answer to stonehorns, big daemons, mammoths, dragons, etc. Razordons and Salamanders are in good shape, imo. So are rippers and terradons. Kroxigors definitely need some attention, though. They really ought to take a page out of Total War's book in this regard, just make them high-rend elites that can mulch hordes but also hold their own against other elite units. Troglodon just needs some minor buffing. It already does some pretty cool stuff, just needs a small boost in power. Bastiladons are in great shape, but stegadons should be our linebreakers. Somewhere in between the murder machines that the carnosaurs should be and the living tanks bastiladons are.

    For how to make our army fresh, I personally would like to see them lean heavily into the fact that we are LIZARDmen. Reptillian warriors who should feel no pain and fear no enemy. Lots of armies have army-wide bonuses. We should get something like a scaly skin or feel no pain save after save that helps us better withstand the insane amount of mortal wound output that new armies seem to keep getting. I'm mostly thinking of how the Lizardmen play in TW:W2 here. We're a very resilient army with all the saurus units being very good at outlasting the enemy, skinks being there for missile fire and support, and dinos and kroxigors being there for the punch when you need it. That's how I would like to see the Seraphon play, tbh. Along with the Slann being able to cast more and better magic and not having to sit in the back doing nothing but summon more skinks to dance around objectives with.

    I still think we should have summoning and teleporting, but would prefer to see it become less of the main focus of our army. Right now, the idea seems to be "It doesn't matter if the Seraphon units suck, because they can just summon more and zap them across the battlefield wherever they want." The lore and types of units we have say that we should be a resilient, powerful army with the extra strength of having strong magic and mobility. They way our army is currently set up is all of our units are seen as disposable chaff because who cares if they all die they can just get summoned right back, right? But the fact is we can't summon enough to make up for the devastating losses from trying to actually fight pretty much any other army, and the fact that summoned/teleported units aren't always useful until the next turn is a major weakness.

    I think it would be more interesting if we kept teleporting as it is now, but changed summoning to make it so that we accumulate points in ways other than sacrificing spells. Doesn't Tzeentch get summoning points from SUCCESSFULLY casting spells now? I could be wrong on that. But I'd personally rather see something like that than our current mechanic of sitting around doing nothing for a turn or two, only to summon something that most likely won't be able to do much more than try to tie up an objective before it dies. I guess it comes down to the fact that our summoning is a defensive, reactive mechanic right now. We wait, and wait, and then try to summon something that might be useful, but have to sacrifice a lot to do so. I'd rather see summoning be a snowballing effect. Where the points build off our successes and when something is summoned it's like a finishing move in a fighting combo rather than a panic button to try and stem the enemy tide.

    TL,DR:
    I think GW likes our faction as much as any other currently existing faction. New ones will always get more love and attention because they've gotta hype the new stuff for sales. I just think they aren't sure what to do with Seraphon given that their lore is disjointed, their warscrolls are out of date, and what was once unique about them has become common to a lot of factions. They prefer re-works to mere updates, but probably don't know how to make a re-work do them justice while not totally changing the lore, playstyle and aesthetic of the faction. Personally, I hope they go for a "mere" update and leave our Aztec lizards riding dinosaurs theme intact, while remembering that the Slann are supposed to be the best mages out there!

    Also, @Lizerd and @Erta Wanderer, do you think I would have a hard time getting people at my gaming store to let me play with those rules? I'm trying to get friends to play AoS with me, but the chances are few and far between. I think that if I tried to take those fan-made rules to the game shop, it would probably be looked down upon...
     
  17. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    if it's a GW store then you will probably have resistance if it's a privet club it should be easier. that said if february goes by and there is still no word then i thing most people would take pity on you.
    just let people know that these rules are still very much in the play test phase and ask them to test it with you. if people say yes let me know your findings and i can make adjustments
     
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  18. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Many factions have similar abilities, like undead, DoK and Nurgle all share save-after-save in certain forms. And summoning is common theme among daemonic and undead factions.

    In a game, like AoS, with such limited movement, teleportation looks like a good decision. Our teleportation is still superior to any other, because it has almost no downsides. We can teleport any unit, it doesn't require battalions, spells, prayers or special spawning points on the battlefield. Our superior mobility is the only thing which allows us to compete when everyone plays AoS 2.0 while we still play 1.0.

    Every single battletome has been teased beforehand as a part of WarCom preview at certain events (maybe, Beast of Chaos were exception, I don't remember). Since Seraphon were not teased at Open Day, we have to wait till the next large event. I wouldn't hope for surprises (won't completely deny the possibility either).

    Shift of design style means that they have to rework all our newer monsters, Bastiladons, Carnosuars, Stegadons, Ripperdactyl - they are all new and still looks very Aztec/Maya/Inca style with golds plates, feathrs bones, etc. They had very strong reason outside "we just won't" to do this.

    Second, Seraphon a popular enogh. I judge by different pollls on other forums and the fact that they are still brought to tournaments by many players despite being on the weaker side. GW also mentions us in recent battletomes frequently as well as using in diaramas, etc. I don't see why would they rework our design if we are popular as we are.

    Third, we are mentioned in Malign Protents and WarCry lore. And it doesn't indicate that we are changed from what we always were. We just confirmed to become real if stay around the realms for too long and using spawning pools. We can even revert to savage state if cut from other Seraphon forces.

    Now, we can compare some facts:

    1) It has been stated by AoS rule team, that every faction will get reworked battletome until the end of 2020;
    2) There were not any rumor engine with seraphon style except giant scaly tail, which very likely will end up Aelven.

    If GW were to completely remake Seraphon, we could notice it in rumor engines. And since the time is limited to the end of 2020, we are wery unlikely getting more than one new hero.

    My theory is that seraphon is just a small release to fill a gap between more important stuff, like Beasts of Chaos once were. It explains a lot to me.
     
  19. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    The way GW is treating us is disheartening.
    we are vaguely competitive for the additional rules given us with GHB 2.0, otherwise we would be basically dead meat. In the meantime, armies more recent than us see updates and new models. It's really absurd.
    I've got many armies.... i like LoN and Nighthauns, and i also like CoS, so i sometime field them for a game or two. But to like and to love are different things.

    Sad to say this, but I'm playing AoS less and less… i'm still waiting for something to change, as i love our dinos and lizards, but ATM i find myself far more attracted by 40k.
     
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  20. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Here is a solution to your troubles! Take the tau and give them saurus heads, anything is possible with enough green stuff!


    probably best to work it out with the store manager and your opponent, and hopefully they will understand that we are stuck with awful warscrolls
     

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