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AoS 2000 pt list Knights of Seraphonia(Quad Carnos)

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by Jason839, Feb 10, 2017.

  1. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    The spittle is not subject to the buff because it is neither a "bite" nor a "jaws" attack.
    So it looks like this:
    Scar-Vet on Carnosaur: Provided he is still undamaged the buff affects the one attack from the Scar-Vet and five attacks from the Carnosaur, rend -1
    Oldblood on Carnosaur: Provided he is still undamaged the buff affects five attacks from the Carnosaur, rend -1
    Troglodon: It always affects six attacks, if he gets damaged the attack just becomes less likely to hit. (4/2 if undamaged, up to 4/5 if he is almost dead). No rend

    So the Troglodon does most attacks, but: The Oldblood's CArnosaur does 3 damage with each attack, so that would double to mind-bogging SIX damage. The Scar-Vet's Carnosaur does 1d3 which ends up being 2d3 with the buff, and the Troglodon makes two damage so he gets four.
     
  2. Jason839
    Cold One

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    @Aginor. The only thing I would add is the old bloods command ability to add two to the attack stat of a weapon. This plus the poison staff would mean even more.
     
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  3. Aginor
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    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    That's right!
    Maximizing the number of attacks is a good idea to improve the chance to roll that six you need with the wound roll.
    Unfortunately the Oldblood on Carnosaur can't buff the Troglodon (he can only buff Saurus heroes) so the best choice might be for the Oldblood to be your general and keep the Scar Veterans in 20" (shouldn't be too hard) to get the bonus as well and always buff the one with most enemy units around him with the Serpent Staff.
     
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  4. MerciaBear
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    MerciaBear Active Member

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    Brilliant thanks for clearing that up. The Oldblood looks terrifying in that case. Christ!
     
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  5. Aginor
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    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    If only there was a way to make sure those wound rolls really become 6 so the buff realy does anything.
    ...hmmm... perhaps with a Starseer?
     
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  6. MerciaBear
    Cold One

    MerciaBear Active Member

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    Yeh its monstrous in that case.....! Might be a quite expensive way of re rolling though. Is there any +1 buff to make it a 5 on the dice? I know Skink chief does for Skink keyword units.

    Also, would you use the serpent staff potentially on Saurus Knights? With the Scar Vet on cold one a ten man unit would get three sets of bite attacks basic, plus the extra 10 cold one bite attacks (make that 11 incl his) from the scar vet.

    40 bite attacks. With the potential for double damage on some of them.
     
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  7. DeadlyRecluse
    Chameleon Skink

    DeadlyRecluse Well-Known Member

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    This list seems super stompy and brutal. Blood roars on four carnos is going to be super gross unless you're facing stormcast, and I think you'll prolly still be able to steam roll them pretty hard unless theyre running lots of dracoths and stardrakes
     
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  8. Jason839
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    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    That reminded me, does anyone know if they made an official ruling on multiple blood roars triggering multiple times? Because of how it is worded using "any carnosaurs" I could foresee my opponents getting confused.
     
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  9. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Unfortunately does not stack, just one roll off.
     
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  10. Aginor
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    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Yep. The keyword is "any". It doesn't matter how many Carnosaurs there are.

    As for the Serpent Staff on Knights: Yes I think that works. Knights have lots of attacks so it is likely that you get a few extra damage.
     
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  11. Jason839
    Cold One

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Ive always played it that way as well, but thats mostly out of a sense of community and not wanting to lose friends. But I wanted to ask if there is anything official out about abilities triggering multiple times simultaneously.

    Rules as Written, I would be tempted to argue the other way. That multiple carnosaurs would generate multiple Blood Roars every battleshock.

    Here is why I would think that way:

    1. Neither the Rule of 1 or the Battleshock Section of the Rules state anything about Abilities on units not being allowed to trigger multiple times or multiple times simultaneously.
    2. The Blood Roar rule itself on the warscroll does not limit the amount of times it can trigger during a turn or when.
    3. The Rules as Written on the Blood Roar ability itself state

    "The roar of a Carnosaur can cause even the most daring warrior to turn and flee. If your opponent takes a battleshock test for a unit within 8" of any Carnosaurs, roll a dice. If the result is higher than the result on your opponent's dice, D3 models flee from the unit(as well as any that flee because of the test).

    The wording in the Warscroll does not limit the amount of times Blood Roar can activate. Furthermore it specifies any carnosaurs for the activation condition. This would lead me to conclude that if I took 4 carnosaurs as I intend to do, and my opponent takes a battleshock test within 8" of any of them, no matter how far away they are from each other, the activation condition for Bloodroar on each Carnosaur would have been met. Bloodroar would trigger 4 different times, 1 for each carnosaur. Because there isn't a rule I can find that says otherwise, I would then make 4 individual blood roar tests to make with my opponent who would then have D3 models flee for every test failed in addition to battleshock results.

    And because the ability is not limited per turn, this would repeat for every battleshock they took while within 8" of a carnosaur.

    It would be super cheesy and a sure way to lose friends if this holds up, but as I read it, this is how it would work to me.
     
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  12. DeadlyRecluse
    Chameleon Skink

    DeadlyRecluse Well-Known Member

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    Since it's read as any I'd have to agree with Bowser, although it does mean that by spacing your carnos out you'll be able to cover more areas and make more units affected
     
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  13. Bracnos
    Carnasaur

    Bracnos Well-Known Member

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    HOLY hell i love this idea now i need three more carnos :singing::singing::singing:
     
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  14. MerciaBear
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    MerciaBear Active Member

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    Chaps what are you generally taking as the scar vet weapon on the carnosaur? Is there an obviously better choice?
     
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  15. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Normally I take the Warblade, occasionally the warspear if I think I will need the reach, but generally they are all fairly even.
     
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  16. MerciaBear
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    MerciaBear Active Member

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    Yep thats what I thought. Ta.
     
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  17. Jason839
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    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    I'd go with a warspear if you think you will play Sylvaneth or other high armor armies. Need something with a high Number of rend attacks to deal with that 2 up armor/re-rolling saves of 1, Treelord Ancient everyone takes.
     
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  18. Joshua Horchler
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    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff Jason! I have run lists with a good amount of knights and Carnosaur's and here is my feedback.

    The firelance battalion is cheap and cool, but isn't as powerful as it seems at first glance. The charge bonus is great! But the damage isn't very consistent. They have low number of attacks and after you charge your dmg goes down. I've found more success with buffing them under the Bloodclaw battalion. Here is some math:

    5x Knights under 3 Scar Vet Buffs in Bloodclaw:
    5x Lances/Blades
    25x Vicious Bites
    -10x Powerful Jaws
    reroll all hits of 1
    average of 14-15 wounds (at - rend)

    5x Knights with Firelance:
    5x Lances
    10x Bites
    5x Jaws
    average of 6-7 wounds with maybe 2 mortal wounds the turn you charge.

    The thing that I found was, the turn you charge and you don't roll a lot of 6's to wound, the knights just don't cut it. Also if they get bogged down in combat, the firelance buffs are gone, when the Scar Vet's can buff them as long as they are alive and also buff all of your other Carnosaur's. Either way knights are a little underpowered, but I have found a little more consistency with buffing them under the Bloodclaw and then having them hunt down light infantry, rather than going for the hailmary mortal wounds on bigger/tougher creatures (That;s what the Carnosaurs are for :) )

    This limits your Carnosaur count to 3 but if you went Bloodclaw I'd go:
    2x Oldblood (4 extra attacks on every leader is insane.It means with the reroll, Coldone Vets are hitting 14 times lol)
    3x Cold one Vets (mini Carnosaurs)
    1x Scar Vet Carnosaur

    15 -25 Knights and other units to taste!

    That's just my experience and input. Either way this is exactly how i like to play Seraphon. Smash mouth :)
     
  19. MerciaBear
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    MerciaBear Active Member

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    This is briliant. Ive often found that knights on their own or with just a carno buff arent setting the world alight, but this answers that :)
     
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  20. Joshua Horchler
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    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    They aren't All Stars but they can do their job. I wouldn't build my whole army around them. , I've found about 15-20 worked okay. Having one unit of 10 to march in front of your Carnosaurs can be very useful to create a buffer. I try to position myself to pull of a big change turn where you get three activations first, two Quicksilver and your first activation. That turn is usually pretty good for me.
     
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