8th Edition Rumors

From Warseer:

Note: This is only a summary of rumours that have been discussed in recent months. Rumours are subject to change. They are only 100% correct when they are facts.

Edit: I am changing the process of updating this a bit. What I will do is save up rumour changes for a day or two, then post them in GREEN. They will stay like this until the next update, which will then be posted in ORANGE so that people can follow all the latest changes and keep track of the previous update.


Updating this: Much as I'd like to have the time and motivation to read all rumour discussions, PLEASE PM ME here with info, only if there is a significant rumour discussion from someone you guys really trust.

All non-english rulebooks are moving to inches.
Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
528+ pages. Full colour
Introduction games for Warhammer 8th edition starting around May 22nd (only one scenario apparently)
The book is up for advance order from a swedish store. £45.
Definitely going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 10th
Rulebook will come with next black box, so all shops can make demo day by 12th June.

There will be a "General's" Edition as well as a "Gunner's" Edition: Both are the basic rulebook along with multiple different gimmicks, as golden templates, dice, angulometer, combat-resolution-calculator, markers and more. "General's Edition" is supported with a white linen bag with two silver coins attached to it, so if you fall in battle, they may put them on your eyes...


Other rumours (and description of above)

These are all listed in no particular order.

ARMY SELECTION AND OTHER BITS

* Army construction is moving back to percentages.

25% max lords (includes mounts)
25% max heroes
25% min core
50% max special
25% max rare

Everyone who saw a test game are saying it’s 25% lord 25% hero

Just so I am clear on this, as there has been some misunderstanding, you can have a lord level character leading a small army if you want to (within the points), you don't have to take a hero as you do currently. I have heard nothing about unit champions being the general
* Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
* Special Choices: No more than 3 of the same type - Examples; No more than 3 units of Chaos Knights, or 3 units of Forsaken etc in the same army.
Rare Choices: No more than 2 of the same type - Examples; No more than 2 Hellcannons, or 2 Chaos Giants etc in the same army.
* High Elves ignore all these restrictions as they have the Elite Army special rule.

* These numbers are increased when having games of 3000 points or more. (Up to 6 special and 4 rare) Could be +1 of the same type of special and rare per 1000pts.
.


Allied Forces

* Allied forces will not get a % allocation. However, rules for using allied forced (i.e. an updated allied forces chart) are in the rulebook.
* Allies are now split into 3 groups:

Forces of Order: High Elves, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs and Brettonia

Forces of Destruction: Chaos of any kind, Skaven, Greenskins, Dark Elves (edit. Vampire Counts may go here).

Neutral: Ogres and Tomb Kings
* The allies rules are intended to be used by more than 2 players. You are not supposed to use more than one armybook in your army.
* Allies from the same grouping are allowed to use the other army General’s leadership, but cause panic in units of the other army if they are forced to flee. If an allied unit is forced to flee through another ally from a different group, the stationary unit counts as dangerous terrain (see below under terrain).

Example: High Elves (Force of Order) flee through Warriors of Chaos (Force of Destruction).
* If you are allied with Dark Elves or Skaven you have to roll every friendly turn in order to see what sort of ally they are (need more info on this).


* There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.

You may measure distances whenever you want.


MOVEMENT

Single models have a 90 degree arc of sight. Units still have a 45 degrees arc of sight

Standard Movement

* Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move like fast cav currently do, minus the reform).

* (edit: It seems I am very close with this, the champion one is only by process of deduction. Still awaiting further confirmation on all this)

Standard Bearer = Re-roll one of the charging dice
Musician = At the end of their movement phase, a unit with a musician may reform for free.
Champion = ?

(edit: As it has caused some confusion, these are all only additions to what all the command models currently do)


Charging.

* Rumoured to be:

Infantry M1-M6 = Basic Movement value + 2D6
Fast Attack M7+ (Cavalry and fliers) = Basic Movement value + 3D6 use 2 highest)
* +1CR for charging. -Avian (more likely)
* Units charged by multiple enemies can change their charge reaction. For instance, you hold against the first enemy that charges you, then change it to flee when the second unit charges you.



Failed Charge

* Rumoured to be the higher die of your 2D6 roll (+ basic movement).


Fliers

* Move 10 " and march 20 ". They ignore terrain whilst moving. While fleeing or pursuing, they use their ground movement. (note: the ground movement part may not be entirely correct)


Fast Cavalry

* Apparently Fast Cavalry may make a free 12" move at the beginning of the game, but cannot charge an enemy in the first turn, and cannot end their movement within 12”.


Fleeing/Pursuing

* Fleeing/pursuit is rolled for the same way as charging. Units fleeing through impassable terrain and enemy units; see below under dangerous terrain.


Wheeling

* Units can wheel up to 90 degrees without penalty.


Pursuit

* When you charge and reach a fleeing unit, you only wipe it out if you pass a Ld test.


Marching.

* Double Movement distance as normal. When there's an enemy within 8", the unit has to pass a leadership test to march. Not sure how this applies to Dwarfs.


Reforming

* Units may reform once as long as they have a musician, but may neither move nor shoot the same turn. Units containing a musition can do a free reform after failing a charge if they pass a Ld test. Units may reform after the combat phase, but cannot have less models in base contact. Units that lost the combat resolution have to make a Ld test in order to reform.
If the unit has a musician, it may move afterwards, or shoot. (Note: I'm pretty sure I'm missing some details on that one.)




Heavy cavalry

* Unchanged. Rumour was wrong, heavy cav march as normal.



Skirmishers

* Skirmishers are now a fixed formation, with a 1 inch gap between each and every model. -Avian and Kah-thurak - Note. The gap between them may actually be the same size as the base width.

X = Model
O = 1" Gap between

X O X O X O X O X
O O O O O O O O O
X O X O X O X O X

Skirmishers still rank up in combat, but as they do not get a rank bonus they cannot negate enemy rank bonuses. As long as they are not charging, Skirmishers can reform on the move as often as they wish and also march and shoot.
* Skirmishers are always stubborn in a forest.
* 360 Line of sight for skirmishers. Some have said this is in and some have said it is definitely not. I will edit one out later.



Redirecting charges

* If I have understood this correctly, it seems we’re going back to 6th ed rules. You can redirect a charge at any other valid target following the normal rules for declaring charges, not just at an enemy unit lying on your direct pursuit path.



MAGIC

NOTE: The magic rumours nobody seems to agree on, so rather than try and find what exactly the truth is I will just put here most of the theories

Edit: I've sorted out the ones that seem more likely, based on the info from anonymous sources:

Generating Power and Dispel Dice

* Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)


Channeling (confirmed that it exists)

* Each wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional power dice on a roll of 6.
* Each enemy wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional dispel dice on a roll of 6.
* You may not channel while fleeing, off the board or when you suffer from stupidity..


Maximum Power and Dispel Dice

* The maximum number of power or dispel dice you may have at any time is 12. This includes any power/dispel dice generated by special rules, spells and/or magic items.


Casting Spells

* To cast a spell, roll 1 to 6 Power dice and add your caster's power level. EG: A Slann casts fireball and uses 2D6. He rolls a 3 and a 4 - score of 7. He than adds his Power Level of 4, which results in a total roll of 11.


Miscasting
Here is where I think we need a lot more information.

* It is rumoured that miscasts are entirely gone, but are replaced by a combined irresistible force/ miscast table effectively:
* When you roll a double 6 the spell is cast with irresistible force, but the Caster has to roll on the "lost control" chart, which is devastating, and far more worse than the current miscast table.


Lost Control Chart

* Roll of 1: Could be S10 hit for caster and models in base contact.

Roll of 4: The wizard is sucked into the warp and the large template is centred over him. S10 hits for models under a 5” template, centred on the wizard. Also, roll a D6. On a roll of 1-3 your wizard is plunged into the realm of chaos, ond a 4+ you lose D6 power dice instead.



Determining Spells

* Each lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.
* While writing the armylist, you will have to note which lore your magic users will use. You may not wait until you see the enemies forces. - I'm not sure how well that will actually work in practice...
* Next you need to see which casters can have which spells. Roll D6 and see which spell you got, similar to how it is now. Any spell can be swapped for the Basic Spell. If you roll double for a spell you have to re-roll until you have the required number for the wizard level.
* As no two spells from the rulebook Lores can be duplicated in the army (except the Basic Spell), if you want more than 1 wizard to have spells from the same lore you now have a choice to make.

Example: You have 3 wizards you want to use the Lore of Fire. A level 4, a level 3 and a level 1.

Do you give the level 4 wizard 3 spells + the Basic Spell? Or 4 spells and leave the remaining 2 spells plus the Basic Spell for the level 3 wizard? The level 1 wizard has no options other than the Basic Spell in this example, as all the other spells have already been taken.
* There are some exceptions to this way of choosing spells:
Bound spells
Spells the caster knows "naturally", eg Warrior Priests or Khemri Priests
Spells that are not rolled for but bought, i.e. Necromancers.




Bound spells

* Bound spells are cast like normal spells now, but instead of your caster's power level, you add the level of the magic item. (Not 100 % sure on this one)

* Every magic user has access to the pool.
* Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (more likely) – Avian

* Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
* Each lore to get a mega spell.
* Spells can be chosen, not rolled for, but can't be duplicated in the same army with the exception of the first spell of the lore -Avian (more likely)
* If a wizard fails to reach the casting value it is not a miscast, they just cannot cast any more spells that magic phase. -Avian (more likely)
* Some spells will scale up.



Spells are now categorized. There are: Missiles, Curses, Buffs, Direct Damage and Power Whirl spells.

* Missiles: Require Line of Sight and may not be cast into close combat.
* Curses: Modify enemy stats and/or equipment
* Buffs: Support your own troops
* Direct damage: Spells that use templates or apply to the whole target unit.
* Power whirls: Apply to all of the battlefield or move across the table.!?


* It is rumoured that ‘remains in play’ spells are not auto dispelled by casting another spell.


Lore of Fire - The Wind of Aqshy

Special Bonus: If the enemy suffered a wound from a fire lore spell earlier this magic phase, the caster is granted a Bonus of +3 when casting a fire spell upon the same target.

* Missiles:
* Fireball; which sounds like it could be D6 S4, or 2D6 S5, or 3D6 S6 hits.
* Curses:
* Buffs:
Flaming Sword(s) of Rhuin: Unit Buff. Grants +1 to wound and flaming attacks.
* Direct damage:
* Power whirls:


Lore of Metal - The Wind of Chamon

Special Bonus: Direct damage spells from the lore of metal have no strength value. Instead the unmodified armour save of the target is the required roll to wound. This causes flaming attacks and ignores armour saves.

* Missiles:
* Curses:
Swap the enemies armour save for their toughness, e.g. 1+ save and toughness 3 becomes toughness 1 and 3+ save.
* Buffs:
Possibly a spell that grants every unit in 12" scaly skin (5+ armour)
* Direct damage:
* Power whirls:


Lore of Shadow - The Wind of Ulgu

Special Bonus: After the wizard successfully casts a spell, he may switch places with another friendly character of the same unit type.

* Missiles:
* Curses:
* Buffs:
One spell you can switch the position of two characters that are 'within 18"' (not sure if they have to be within 18" of each other, or just to the caster).
* Direct damage:
* Power whirls:


Lore of Beasts - The Wind of Grrrr (Ghur)

Special Bonus:

* Missiles:
* Curses:
* Buffs:
* Direct damage:
* Power whirls:


Lore of Heavens - The Wind of Azyr

Special Bonus:

* Missiles:
* Curses:
* Buffs:
* Direct damage:
* Power whirls:


Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh

Special Bonus:

* Missiles:
* Curses:
* Buffs:
* Direct damage:
* Power whirls:


Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran

Special Bonus:

* Missiles:
* Curses:
* Buffs:
* Direct damage:
* Power whirls:


Lore of Death - The Wind of Shyish

Special Bonus: For each wound caused by lore of death spells, roll a D6. On a roll of 5+ you are granted an additional power dice.

* Missiles:
* Curses:
* Buffs:
* Direct damage:
* Power whirls:
Purple Sun. A crystal sphere drifting above the battlefield. It uses the 3 inch template, moving artillerydice multiplied by 3 inches from the wizard into a chosen direction. Each model touched has to pass a I-test or is removed from play.




And the other rumours:

* Each spell can be cast once per magic phase, regardless of how many casters there are. - Avian says this is possibly speculation
* Dispel scroll only adding dispel dice (+2 dice to the dispel dice pool once per game). (edit - possibly speculation)



SHOOTING

Single models have a 90° field of view.

Fire in 2 ranks.

* All missile weapons fire in 2 ranks as standard
* Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills. -Harry I think



Salvo Fire

* Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots. Salvo fire only applies if you haven't moved and not when you stand and shoot.




True Line of sight

* Units draw true line of sight. You are considered in cover when shot at through another unit, granting a -1 or -2 penalty on to hit rolls. Note that someone else has said this is more likely as well.


War Machines

* Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. If you are touched, you are hit. -Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now


War Machines: There'll be no guessing anymore. You place the template (or point of impact) where you want the weapon to hit and roll normally for scatter. Take with a big pinch of salt at this stage.


Shooting a cannon

* You nominate a spot then roll the two artillery dice for bounces. If you hit a unit, the strength decreases like a bolt thrower's bolt, starting at S10. If the first bounce hits a wall, the shot is wasted but the wall is destroyed.


Change to Wound table

* All the ‘N’ are replaced with a 6… I’m taking this one with a fair bit of salt.
COMBAT

NOTE: Trying to nail down what the facts are here is very hard. Some of this is only my understanding of what has been discussed.

Supportive Attacks

* Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model. - Avian/Harry.
* This is only for models fighting to the front. Units charged in the flank or rear only fight in 1 rank, but being charged in the flank or rear will not stop units fighting in multiple ranks to the front.
* Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.
* Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
* Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).
* This does not apply to Monstrous Infantry, who are rumoured to fight with a maximum of 3 attacks per model from the second rank (more likely).



Cavalry

* Riders only in the second rank may attack.


Stepping up. – Harry/ Avian / other people

* Casualties are strictly removed from the back. [extremely likely].


Horde

* 10+ wide units attack with one rank more than normal. Monstrous infantry like Ogres need to be only 6 wide to benefit from this rule. There are no other requirements to be a Horde. - Avian



Stubborn

* If you are only engaged to the front and have more ranks than the opponent, you are Stubborn. - Avian/Harry


Unit Strength

* Unit Strength is completely gone, lots of things are altered to compensate for this. -Avian


Rank bonuses

* Unchanged. Up to 3.


Monstrous Creatures

* 40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).


Crush them!

* Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry are granted 1 bonus attack with the "always strikes last" special rule, at base strength (includes Great Eagles and Disks). (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.)


Destroy them!

* Larger Creatures and Monsters do D6 attacks instead of 1 attack for crush them. (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.)


Striking in Initiative order

* Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed).


Chariots

* S7 autokill is gone. - Avian (more likely)


Outnumbering Enemy

* There will be no CR bonus for outnumbering the enemy.


Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution

* Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear. (more likely)


Change to Wound table

* All the ‘N’ are replaced with a 6… I’m taking this one with a fair bit of salt.


Breath Weapons

* It seems a monster with a breath weapon may use it in the shooting phase once per battle (no partials under the template). They then have 2D6 hits with the breath weapons strength in combat. This is in initiative order. At the moment it looks like it will be in addition to regular attacks, not instead of.



Parry

* The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat to the front only. It provides no benefit if you are attacked in the flank or rear and does not work against impact hits and crush them/destroy them attacks. This replaces the +1 to Armour Save gained by fighting with HW & shield.

As ward saves do not stack normally, you won't get any benefit from Parry if you already have a better ward save.

It is not a second ward save (afaik).
It is not a ward save ontop of an armour save (afaik)
It does not stack (afaik).



Overrunning

* When you destroy an enemy unit you can either overrun or immediately reform to face the direction of your liking.




WEAPONS

Combat Weapons

* Great weapons Always strike last (this overrides any army book rules). Can be used in 2 ranks!
* Cavalry armed with Great Weapons have +2 Strength



Missile Weapons

* Longbows Same. See shooting above for more rules.
* Pistols have 12" range.


Thrown Weapons

* Stand and Shoot reaction: The only weapons you can stand and shoot with if the enemy charges you from within their basic movement range are thrown weapons.



PSYCHOLOGY and SPECIAL RULES

* The number of universal special rules has doubled. Presumably this is just drawing in some from the army books themselves.


* Units can reroll all leadership tests within 12" of the battle standard.
* If the General is on a Large Target mount the Ld range is 18” instead.


Stubborn

* Stubborn units can use the general's leadership for break tests if within 12".


Panic

* Seems to be unchanged



Fear and Terror

* Fear/Terror tests are taken at the start of every combat phase.

If you fail the Fear/Terror test you are reduced to WS1 & A1. Presumably mounts are reduced to WS1 & A1 as well.

Terror comes with a chance to run away, but no longer has the 6” range, it is decided in combat. Fear does not make enemies flee.

* Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
* Leadership tests against fear is rumoured to be going
* Fear and Terror incorporate immune to panic (with possibly a change to crumbling for undead).


Killing Blow

* Still works as normal, but there is something called a Heroic Killing Blow that will deal with larger things like Ogres.


Always Strike Last

* Models with great weapons will always strike last


Always Strike First

* ASL combined with ASF cancel each other out. Strike in initiative order.

However ASF + higher initiative than your enemy: Reroll to hit rolls. So even if Swordmasters and White Lions are striking in initiative order they may get re-rolls to hit!


Frenzy

* You still get +1 attack on the charge (front rank only). If the enemy is within Movement +12”, it has to declare a charge unless it surpresses the frenzy by passing a ld test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.



Magic Resistance

* This has been changed to improve an existing Ward Save, or to grant a Ward Save to magic.

Magic Resistance 1 = +1 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 6+
Magic Resistance 2 = +2 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 5+
Magic Resistance 3 = +3 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 4+

For things that already have a Ward Save, Flesh Hounds for instance, they have a 5+ Ward save already, and MR(3). This gives them a 5+ save against shooting/ combat, and a 2+ Ward Save against magic.


Regeneration

* Regeneration will come in several types. The Slanns ability for example will grant him Regeneration (3+), while there is a mundane magic item that grants regeneration (6+).


MAGIC ITEMS

* Apparently there is an absolutely HUGE list of magic items in the book… Could easily be 50+ (possibly 85). There is a chance you may not be able to duplicate most of them in a list.

* 10-20 items in each category.

Dwarfs and Daemons of Chaos do not have access to Common Magic Items. Army book values for magic items override the Rulebook if different.




Staff of Channelling Wizard channels additional PD at the roll of 5+ instead of 6
Screaming Blade: Bearer causes Fear
Potion of Strength: 20 points, +D3 Strength for one turn
Potion of Toughness: 20 points, +D3 Toughness for one turn
Tower: There is a very strange enchanted item which is called something like "foldable castle". The bearer of this item may place a tower in his deployment zone at the beginning of game.!?


OTHER RULEBOOK CONTENTS

* Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook (no kill points). See GW grand tournament and doubles scenarios.

* 15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required units to capture objectives (not just core). Units must have banners to capture objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives

* Victory Conditions
Interestingly something I picked up from a post was that ‘victory conditions’ have been referred to in the last 3 books, not victory points.

* A section in the rulebook dealing with specific issues that may arise during battles



Terrain

* D6+4 compulsory terrain.
* Terrain will not just affect the movement phase so much but will affect fleeing units, like in the War of the Ring game.
* The rulebook includes terrain rules for all the GW products.
* There are rules for dangerous terrain, and for some unit types different types of terrain are treated as dangerous.


Dangerous Terrain

* Roll D6 for every model, on a 1 it loses a wound


Forests

* Roll a D6 the first[u/] time any model enters a forest, the forest will stay like this for the rest of the battle. Note that the numbers for the roles below may not actually be the numbers, but the effects are;

1 = Regular Forest
2 = Ghostly Forest - a unit standing in it causes Fear
3 = Blood Forest - if magic is cast on a unit standing in the forest it suffers 1d6 hits at S4, and then the forest moves 2d6" into a random direction…
4 = Mushroom Forest - all units in it have Stupidity, except for Goblins, who become Stubborn.
5 = Poisonous Forest – it is treated as ‘dangerous terrain’. The unit standing in it has Poisoned attacks.
6 = Finding a magic item in the woods.? Or this one could be a unit charging out of a cursed forest causes fear.
* Cavalry always treats a forest as ‘dangerous terrain’ (see above), regardless of what type of forest it is.
* Fighting in woods is -1 CR for ranked infantry and +1 CR for skirmishers. Might be worse for cavalry. – Avian


Rivers

* Seems this will be similar to forests, you make a role to see what type of river it is.
One of them is Blood Flow, which makes the unit that attacks from the river cause fear.


Arcane Ruins

* Arcane Ruines allow a mage in rage to roll up to 4 dices for channelling.



Scenario: Hold the Temple
A Chaos temple is in the middle of the battlefield. Before the game it was rolled who was in charge of the place. The army that rolled higher on a D6 was entitled to put one of their Core Units there before the beginning of the game. The objective was to have any unit (not just Core) there at the end of the game in order to win. The Chaos Temple allowed for 'sacrificing' the soul of a Champion/Character for random stats boost (or, on the roll of 1, a quick and painful death.)


Discredited rumours
Fight-until-someone-breaks
Lapping around
Armour Save Modifiers changing. They’re not.
One Save.. Apparently armour/ ward/ regeneration saves are not changing!? Shame.

 

Ok enough with the direct copies from warseer, a simple link is enough. And with the coloring over there it is much easier to read and see what is new.

Just link to it, then add comments. Not to mention that we already have like 4 8th edition threads this could have been posted in.

 

If your going to sit here and complain and not even post on topic don't even post.

 

I did comment, I asked for a link instead of a wall of text, as well as continuing 8th edition rumors in the threads already created. We don't need to fragment discussions on 8th edition.

 

Yeah there are already enough threads on 8th ed here, and one even copying the exact post in this one. Sure it is updated a little since then, but doesn't really need a whole new thread. Lets keep 8th ed in the topics we already have. I might even sticky one or two of them so people are more likely to see them.

This thread is being locked.