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Tutorial A Guide to Seraphon Battalions

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Killer Angel, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    The main issue here is not so much that save though. It's the combination of that save with excessive firepower. Against those kind of threats it doesn't matter much what you field, it's going to be costly. The Obvious solution being to get rid of whatever is buffing them before even attempting to deal with the big scary thing.

    Anyways, my point was mostly that they should be able to deal with extreme saves, as you can see by that treelord losing up to about half his health. However, the combination of extreme saves and high firepower tends to be something we're terrible at dealing with as we have very few things capable of doing the same and thus have very little that can actually go toe to toe with something like that, as made evident by that blob of 40 probably being annihilated in a turn or two. Frankly our big dinosaurs could use a buff in that aspect, or they should just be more common (that behemoth limit is rather lame for our army).
     
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  2. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    At least we can bypass it with summoning. But yeah.
     
  3. Njot
    Jungle Swarm

    Njot New Member

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    I dont understand how you can fit so much in 2k points.

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (280)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One(100)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur(240)
    - Warblade
    Saurus Sunblood (120)
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    20 x Saurus Warriors (200)
    - Clubs
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Blades
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Blades
    1 x Razordons (40)
    Bastiladon (280)
    Bloodclaw Starhost (200)

    Reinforcement Points (0)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Allies: 0 / 400

    So the above list has 2 start collecting as base, but covers the min support requirement with startpriest and slann, and a bastilodon for shooting.

    I feel its incredibly light. Granted you can ditch the basti, take more razordons and handlers, but im not sure how much ypu actually gain??

    I have no experience, so please fo improve my list, as i love the concept pf the bloodclaw.
     
  4. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Warriors : You either go for 40 or ditch them. They are really expensive in less for what they do. Knights : 1 10 man group does make sense as it can be an ok threat and takes lots of space / looks impressive.

    While I do always love Bastis, take him out, make 40 warriors and 4 razordon
     
    Canas likes this.
  5. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    As @Seraphage says, warriors you either go all out or you don't take them. A unit of warriors without its horde bonusses is essentially just expensive fodder (this even goes for wounded units, which is why warriors in general tend to be a bit lackluster, they lose too muh firepower too quickly)

    Other than that, you're spending over half your points on heroes, which might be a bit steep. The slann and starpriest are excellent supporting units, but they're not flat out necesary and you could be better of with something else depending on the game and your playstyle. For example the starpriest is literally just there for the buff to bites given that the slann will probably already cover every single other thing the starpriest can do, making it a fairly expensive buff (even if it can be powerfull). Similarly, 2 carnosaurs is great, but expensive. With so much put into your heroes your "core" is fairly lackluster.

    1 razordon is fairly pointless, the lack of numbers means your attacks don't average out so either it'l be amazing or basicly not do anything, I'd assume that was just leftover points.

    Your bastillidon doesn't really fit in that well with the rest of the list. It's just a random behemoth with no significant synergy even if it's an excellent model on its own.

    Also, with your supportin troops being a starpriest, a razordon, a slann and a bastillidon they lack focus. You essentially just have a bunch of mostly random units that are fairly powerfull on their own, but they don't have much synergy with your core apart from just doing something your core doesn't.

    I'd say change any of those. In short; your warriors are fairly sub-par when not at max size, your supporting troops lack focus & you are very heavy on heroes.
     
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  6. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome to ask!

    As said by Canas, the Bastiladon is not that great in this list. IMO it's better to Swap it for 4 razordons and 5 chama skinks.
    You have a Starpriest for the serpent staff and Starlight... at that point you could even cut the Slann and pick a Starseer , so you'll have Curse of fate (if needed) and possibly also rerolls. it's 60 pts saved (plus the 40 of the single razordon that was in your list): in this way you'll have another 100 pts to spend.

    -----------
    you can choose to go light on warriors (10) and pick a more numerous cavalry (2 units 10 x)

    But if you want to go heavy on warriors, then you absolutely need 40 of them, and probably you could consider to use a oldblood afoot, instead of the one on Carno: in this way you will have your warriors with basically +3 to move, and they will be still supported by the Sunbood and the Scarvet.

    The beauty of the Bloodclaw is that you can shape the starhost in the way you want... the starhost is easily playable at 2000 pts, but of course if you want top tier heroes AND top tier support, then you must look for 2500 pts armies.
     
  7. Dedragon
    Skink

    Dedragon New Member

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    One Questioin: You say for the Thunderquake Starhost "...and the effect lasts 'til the next combat phase...". Sure? I think the effekt starts an did not end, even if the Troglodon or EotG dies. You can change the effekt, thats true, but its stay forever.
    I can even teleport my buffed Bastiladon to the other side of the battlefield and it have the buffs.
    (Sorry for my english^^)
     
  8. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Yes and no, you buff everything within 8" of the EoTG at the start of a combat phase, and that buff remains on whoever were there at the start until the next combat phase. But, unless you have some magic rule I don't think you could teleport your bastiladon to the other side of the battlefield and have him fight before the buff resets as it dissapears in the next combat phase.
     
  9. Dedragon
    Skink

    Dedragon New Member

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    "until the next combat phase" No, thats not right! You declare in the combat phase which buff you want, and then you have the buff forever. You CAN declare every combat phase a new buff, but you can still have the old buff forever! The battalion is tronger then we think! :)
     
  10. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Mm right, it says you "can" declare it, not you must... though I'm not sure if that means the buff stays forever. Is there a F.A.Q. cuz the way its phrased it could either mean "when you don't you have the previous buff" or "when you don't you have nothing"
     
  11. Dedragon
    Skink

    Dedragon New Member

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    Would be interesting! :) I looked at the FAQ´s, but did not found anything. In some Warscrolls there is "until the next combat phase" or "until next hero phase", so thats missing here... I think we have the buff forever until somebody shows us the opposite.
     
  12. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Wow we need to ask a FAQ for this. It's HUGE. It scales up Thunderquake A LOT to my lists !
     
  13. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    You can declare anything you want, but the units must be within 8" from the EotG or the Troglodon to have the bonuses granted by Creator's will
     
  14. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    The way it's phrased that's only needed during the declaring though. Not at any point after it. The question just is if the buff remains indefinitly or if you need to keep on declaring it over and over (and thus lose it when the troglodon/EotG dies).
     
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  15. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    I could agree on the first part, but the buff must be declared each turn.
    When a buff lasts indefinitely, it is explicitly said (see the effects granted by the Slann's constellation).
     
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  16. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    I would assume so too, but it is phrased rather amiguously as pointed out a bit earlier. Hence we want a F.A.Q. It only states you can declare it at a certain moment, it never states any ending time, which usually it does when it only lasts 1 turn. (usually it just says "till the/your next x phase)
     
  17. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    Fair point
     
  18. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I did laugh with the idea but let us be honest : It is obvious from the wording that it should be declared each turn.
    Let's not forget the most important rule of all : Read the rules using our logic :D
     
  19. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Both "declare it every turn" and "declare it once, benefit until you declare a different one" have their own logic to it though :p

    plus, the ranged requirement is a tad awkward for the repeated decleration. The starhost consists of several independent units, the skinks handlers being the only ones that can't go off on their own. It doesn't really fit that they have to stick together. The requirement that the troglodon/EoTG needs to be alive for the bonus to be there is probably one that's easier to agree on without a F.A.Q.
     
  20. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    Yep, the way I've always played it is: the units must be within 8" when you declare the kind of bonus. This bonus lasts for them 'til the next turn, at that point the EotG / Trog activates the Creator's will once again, influencing nearby units. If the EotG / Trog dies, the bonus cannot be renewed.
     

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