8th Ed. A Question about Skrox and Spawn-kin

[Iskander]

Hey scale-peeps, I have a question. I dug around with the search function, but couldn't find a recent or unambiguous answer. Also, I looked at the "combined unit' rule in the BRB, but it's about characters, which this isn't, and the Spawn-kin rule doesn't invoke the "combined unit" rules. Anyway, my actual question is about Skrox:

The Spawn-kin rule, in part, governs when a close combat attack may target a Kroxigor in a Skrox unit, but I'm uncertain why this rule is there. Why/how would an enemy in close combat would be able to somehow reach over or past the skinks to get at the Kroxigor? Is that something anything in close combat with a Skrox unit could do? If so, what part of the BRB have I missed or misunderstood?

Alternatively, is the Spawn-kin rule anticipating being in close combat with an enemy that has some special rule that I've missed somewhere (whether in the BRB or an army book I've never seen)? I'm pretty sure it's this one because the alternative would be really weird, but I'd rather hear it from you guys!

Thanks in advance

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Normally a a model can only be attacked if it is in base to base contact with the enemy. When that is the case, enemy models in base to base contact and supporting attacks may target the model. If the spawn-kin rule was not present, enemies would not be able to attack the kroxigors so long as there was a skink between them. The spawn-kin rule, provides our opponents the opportunity to attack our kroxigor as long as they are in base contact with a skink model that is in turn in contact with the kroxigor.

As a result:
Enemy models in base contact with skinks that are in base to base with Kroxigor may choose to attack either the skink or the krox
Enemy models making supporting attacks may only target the skinks

In either case, if an enemy model is in base to base with a krox (i.e. the skinks are dead, or in the case of a flank charge) they may attack the kroxigor as normal (including supporting attacks).

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have an further questions on the topic.

 

[owain_b]

I find the enemy units nearly always just attacks the skinks anyway and win the combat by a shed load of CR. I have never seen a skrox unit do very Well, the skinks just bleed more CR than the Krox can do in return

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I find the enemy units nearly always just attacks the skinks anyway and win the combat by a shed load of CR. I have never seen a skrox unit do very Well, the skinks just bleed more CR than the Krox can do in return

It really depends on what type of enemy you are facing. Elite units will probably take out the Krox because they have the ability to do so and also because their limited numbers are vulnerable to a S7 counterattack. Hordes of cheaper troops, who can't as reliably kill the krox (but can afford casualties) will just bleed the skinks for combat resolution points as you suggest.

That's the problem with skrox, the enemy has the choice of which component of the unit to attack depending on which is more advantageous in that particular situation. I really want them to work better, because I like them aesthetically more than a saurus unit, but I just can't seem to find the justification. There are a few members generals on here however who seem to make good use of them, so there may be hope yet.

 

[Man0waR]

The more I play medium to big Skrox units the more I like them.

-You have cheap steadfast unit, 5 points per wound.
-Movement 6 infantry makes them able to engage with ease.
-If no march they can shoot with poison.
-With musician you can swift reform wide, advance 6" & shoot like 20 shots. Stand & Shoot other 20 shots, and reform after close combat back to gain much needed ranks.
-They always can Stand & Shoot from the front, no matter what is the distance
-Special Mounstrous Infantry choice made core and filling the gap of 4 skinks. Those much needed Strength 7 comes from core atollment.
-Boost leadership to 7.
-Makes the unit inmune to terror. Only fear applies.
- Against BS shooting you spare Kroxigors from significant wounds.
- In combat you spare Kroxigors from support attacks,
- Their big footprint makes your unit deeper for terms of static CR, Steadfast and Disruption purpose. 3 Kroxigors count as 2 ranks.
- Holds forever against Monster, Cavalry, MC, anything but other Infantry and have a good chance to kill them. If they attack Kroxigor for preventing damage, lot of skinks remains to stay steadfast. Otherwise if skinks dies in droves, Kroxigor retalliate with S7 and also they are still giving 2 ranks.
- Kill characters with a tarpit unit.
- Your tarpit will endure some of the biggest threats against lizardmen like purple sun (you lose Kroxigors but skinks should remain enough to hold and do their tarpit job for one or two rounds) while our other core option would be decimated.

What I've been using from my rank and file options:

A) #24 saurus warriors w/ hand weapon & shield
B) #11 skinks +1 Kroxigor
C) #16 skinks +2 Kroxigors
D) #24 skinks +3 Kroxigors

A) was only the best option against crappy infantry like Skaven, Vampire Counts, State troops, Goblins and so on.

B) was good when I used them as Chaff / Redirectors / Flankers. With the chance of scoring some wounds against Chariots. They come for slighty more cost than a 10 skirmishers.

C) I've tested them and they were subpar. Not enough bodies, not enough Kroxigors.

D) I have been playing a lot with great success. I think this is the number. Just try them in a game where saurus would be dying at equal rate as skinks. Then you will see profit.
My last game this unit destroyed Skullcrushers, and killed an exhalted hero of khorne.

 

[Iskander]

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have an further questions on the topic.

Thanks (both you and @Man0waR) - your answer and the ensuing discussion actually do help a lot. I'm not thrilled that the enemy gets to choose which one to attack, but it looks like I have a lot more options than I thought!

 

[Ho'key Po'key]

I have some mild confusion on the number of attacks a Skrox unit gets. The Spawn Kin rule mentions that when you're required to work out the unit's frontage, ranks, supporting attacks, and rank bonus you treat the entire unit footprint as being filled with Skinks (working from memory, forgive any mistakes). Does this mean that a six wide unit with three Kroxigor would get 12 Skink attacks plus all the Kroxigor attacks? Further, would a six wide unit with three Kroxigor and one more full rank of six Skinks behind the Kroxigor get the max +3 rank bonus? This is the way I work it out as it seems proper regarding the way Spawn Kin is worded and the fact that it specifies Supporting Attacks and Rank Bonuses .

 

[Man0waR]

Skrox mechanics:

First rank of skinks attacks with all their Attacks (which is A 1)
Second rank makes support attacks which is restricted to 1 attack per infantry model and 3 attacks per monster infantry model. So Kroxigor will make his 3 attacks.

Third rank (if horde formation): Skinks will make support attacks, but kroxigor who have already in second rank, would not generate extra attacks that way.

Example: 6 Attacks at I4 WS2 S3 & 9 Attacks at I->ASL WS3 S7
s s s s s s
..K..K..K..
s s s s s s

Example: 18 Attacks at I4 WS2 S3 & 9 Attacks at I -> ASL WS3 S7
s s s s s s s s s s
..K..K..K...s s s s
............... s s s s
s s s s s s s s s s

Rank & File mechanic:

Treat Kroxigor as if it was 2x2 skink footprint. They will stand in second rank until there's no skink to fill the whole first rank,, then you step up the krox and he can stomp now.