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AoS Are the Seraphon competitive without summoning?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Brandfas Machine, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. Brandfas Machine
    Skink

    Brandfas Machine Active Member

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    I'm pretty new to the tabletop game, so my collection of models is pretty limited. Is it possible to make a competitive list without relying on summoning?
     
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  2. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    What do you mean by competitive? Are you looking to go 5-0 at GTs? If so, then no.
     
  3. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Agree. It is our core mechanic. Playing without it puts you at a big disadvantage.
     
  4. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    It is possible to play and have fun outside of tournaments though
     
  5. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    In smaller games you can get away with it even competitivly. Mostly cuz if the game is small enough things like a single good shadowstrike ambush will decide the game. You're still throwing out one of our most powerfull abilities though. It's one of the biggest downsides of summoning mechanics, they quickly decide the entire playstyle of the faction/unit/etc. that has it.
     
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  6. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    That is very true. At 1k I use a Slann less list for Tournaments.
     
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  7. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    A slaan is the core aspect of any large army so they are necessary if you want to have a good win rate.

    Carnosaurs are optional but helpful :D
     
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  8. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I would be happy to write a few 2k Slann less armies that I think are as viable as possible. However, as a general rule I believe every 2k Seraphon list is better when it has a Slann.
     
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  9. Brandfas Machine
    Skink

    Brandfas Machine Active Member

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    Thanks for your insight, everyone. I guess I'll just have to take the time and money to pad out my collection. That's some marketing strategy xD. I'd love to see what Slan-less lists you'd have in mind, @LizardWizard ^.^
     
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  10. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Off the top of my head, something like either of these:

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Mortal Realm: Ulgu

    Leaders:
    Skink Starpriest
    (80)
    - General
    - Trait: Master of Star Rituals
    - Artefact: Miasmatic Blade
    - Spell: Meteoric Convocation
    Engine of the Gods (240)
    - Artefact: Spellmirror
    Engine of the Gods (240)
    - Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher
    Engine of the Gods (240)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - Artefact: Betrayer's Crown

    Battleline:
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    10 x Skinks (70)
    - Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (70)
    - Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

    Units:
    6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)

    Battalions:
    Dracothion's Tail
    (80)
    Firelance Starhost (150)
    Shadowstrike Starhost (180)

    Endless Spells / Terrain
    Prismatic Palisade
    (30)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 3
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 109

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Mortal Realm: Ulgu

    Leaders:
    Skink Starpriest
    (80)
    - General
    - Trait: Master of Star Rituals
    - Spell: Meteoric Convocation
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (240)
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (240)
    - Artefact: Miasmatic Blade
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (240)
    - Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
    - Warblade
    - Artefact: Sword of Judgement

    Battleline:
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Blades
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Blades
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Blades

    Units:
    3 x Razordons (120)
    3 x Razordons (120)
    3 x Razordons (120)
    3 x Razordons (120)

    Battalions:
    Dracothion's Tail
    (80)
    Firelance Starhost (150)

    Total: 1990 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 2
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 118
     
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  11. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    He says "off the top of my head" but we all know he has a master list of saved army lists for copy and paste that he spent hours pouring over meticulously deciding every point assigned to every role, calculating 5 turns of random rolling dice into a singular thought of ass kicking chaos lords all over the mortal realms
     
  12. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Pretty close. I choose a few list I already have in my Match Play list thread. I removed the Slann and its support and then added other things :D
     
  13. Das Axolotl
    Skink

    Das Axolotl Member

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    One could say, that triple EotG isnt exactly "not relying on summoning" :D Other then that, it think moneywise you´re not getting away that much cheaper with 3 EotG and 12 Razordons than with the more standard summoning stuff.

    EDIT cause i pressed "post" to early: there are some threads that answer some peoples questions about what to buy first when aiming for a competitive list. Also we could help you individually if you post what stuff you already have :)
     
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  14. Brandfas Machine
    Skink

    Brandfas Machine Active Member

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    Well, I started with a Start Collecting box and followed the guide that was so amazingly put up here to get more bang out of it, then got another start collecting box and some skinks; some I've 3D printed, most have come from the start collecting boxes. Here's what I've acquired thus far:

    • 1 Scar-Vet/Oldblood on Carnosaur
    • 1 Troglodon
    • 1 Astrolith Bearer
    • 1 Scar-Vet on Cold One
    • 1 Sunblood
    • 3 Skink Handlers
    • 1 Skink Chief [a la Lizardmen compendium, just because I had the extra bits]
    • 1 Slann [3D Printed]
    • 15 Saurus Knights
    • 22ish Saurus Warriors
    • 20 Skinks
    • 3 Celestial Swarms [a la Lizardmen compendium, just because I had the extra bits]
    • 3 Salamanders [3D Printed]
     
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  15. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    You could try something like this:

    Allegiance: Seraphon

    Leaders:
    Slann Starmaster
    (260)
    - General
    - Trait: Great Rememberer
    - Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
    - Spell: Meteoric Convocation
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (240)

    Battleline:
    10 x Saurus Knights (160)
    - Lances
    20 x Saurus Warriors (180)
    - Clubs

    Units:
    3 x Salamanders (120)
    3 x Skink Handlers (40)

    Total: 1000 / 1000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 200
    Wounds: 71

    You can use the Skinks, other Knights, Heroes, and the Trogladon for summoning. It isn't an optimized list, but it is a pretty decent list if you are just playing casually.
     
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  16. ChapterAquila92
    Skar-Veteran

    ChapterAquila92 Well-Known Member

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    I'll probably have to read into it when I get the chance, but IIRC you can't take Dracothion's Tail without a Slann being a required element of the warscroll.
     
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  17. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Ohhh, you definitely can't. that was a brain fart. lol. Firelance is still viable.
     
  18. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Plus, a triple EotG with no slann for the additional dice, sounds like heresy. :p


    ...you know what? i can see a list with Slann and triple Engine NOT counting on summoning.
    The Slann manipulates the engines to throw MWs, trying to avoid summoning except when impossible to have a different result, and in the meantime the slann doesn't collect CCP, because you use the full casting potential, throwing around endless spells and the spells granted by our lore.
    Basically you use the build to fabricate a magical storm of MWs and other nasty effects.

    i must definitely think about it...
     
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  19. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Yeah, the army is strictly better with Slann.
     
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