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AoS Best options for order wizards

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Nielspeterdejong, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Hello everyone,

    First of all, merry christmas! I hope you are all having a great time :)

    I wanted to thank everyone for all the help I have received with building armies with my models, and based on that my little brother and I are now working on our custom Seraphon armies.

    To make things more interesting, I decided to buy the Frostheart phoenix, and put the scar veteran from the carnosaur on top, so we can paint him as a bird of paradise :)

    Additionally, I found one of those rare amazon models made by Games workshop for Mortheim, which I am going to use as my battlemage since she has a staff as well (or convert to Loremaster and add a greatsword). And I also bought that cool Sorceress on Cold one model (with the awesome raptor model) and use her as my archmage.

    Now, I have two armies I want to work to, and I wanted to hear your opinions on what order wizard you think would work best here.

    1)
    Celestial Hurricanum: 320
    Frost Phoenix: 260
    Battlemage: 100(jade)/Archmage:120

    Heavenwatch: 100
    Starseer: 160
    Skink Priest: 100
    Skink Priest: 100
    3 units of 10 Skinks: 240
    Bastiladon: 300
    Bastiladon: 300

    Now my initial idea was to add the Jade battlemage, so she could heal the monsters and allow me to continuously keep my my healthy, while having 20 points left. Because each round he can heal a single unit for D3 wounds, and put a ward on that unit for one round). But then I realised that for 120 points I could have an archmage who could give a 18" ward save to all your units instead (all units in range can ignore wounds and mortal wounds on a roll of 6).

    Which of these options do you think is the best? Jade Battlemage or Archmage?

    2)
    Scar Veteran on Carnosaur: 260 (general, +1 damage on spear item, charge trait)

    Amber mage/loremaster: 100
    Celestial Hurricanum: 320 (heal)

    Shadowstrike Starhost: 120
    Starpriest: 100
    3 Terradon riders: 140
    Unit of 10 Chameleon Skinks: 240
    Unit of 40 Skinks: 320

    Unit of 40 warriors: 400
    Unit of 10 warriors: 100

    Now my first idea was to use the amber battlemage to give +1 to wound rolls to my 40 Skinks stack, but then I found out that it only works in the combat phase.

    I could give it to my Saurus warriors instead now, meaning that with the serpent buff from the Starpriest I can deal double damage on bite attacks on a wound roll of 5 and 6. Plus it would allow me to succeed on wound rolls of 3 or higher. However, I could use a loremaster instead, which allows me to reroll all failed hit and wound rolls for my stack of 40 Warriors with spears (who will be buffed by the Starpriest's Starlight and a mythic shield from the celestial hurricanum. Plus they have a group of 10 Saurus fanatics who will be a meatshield ;p).

    Which option sounds better here? Amber battlemage or Loremaster?

    Thanks in advance for your time everyone, and to all a good day!
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  2. Killer Angel
    Carnasaur

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    First consideration.
    You have the Heavenswatch, so your bastiladons are already going to heal 1 w each turn. the jade mage is less useful for them.
    The jade mage receives bonus to cast from the hurricanum, the archmage doesn't.
    the jade mage can heal the hurricanum.
    The archmage can give the same advantage of the Death Allegiance: a ward save of 6+ to many units. This can be huge, however, the units that could benefit from that are: bastiladons, hurricanum and phoenix (but the jade mage can cure them) and the rest of our army, which includes skinks.
    That ward save is useful if you're going to protect costly units, where each 6 means a lot (saurus guards, elite troops), but the ward save on skinks is less useful.

    If you were fielding costly battlelines, I'd say archmage, but with this lists the real key units are the behemoths and the casters; the jade mage imo will serve you better.

    Now, on the second list...


    Loremaster. Hand of glory is just to good to pass. You have a point about the +1 to wound and the buffed bite attack, but also re-rolling failed to hit will increase the number of 6s that you're going to roll with bites attacks.
    In your case, I'd field the amber only if I could count on another source for re-rolling (Sunblood, for example).



    OBVIOUSLY i may be wrong, but that's the way I see it. ;)
     
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  3. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Alright thanks! Those are actually some really good points, and I think your'e right that the Battlemage is the best choice for the first army. It does leave my spellcasters more vulnerable for attacks, but I can just put them in the back and if anyone tries to take them out I can hit them with a double lazer from my Basties :)

    For the second one I agree, the idea for this second army is to have both a part that takes out key enemy units, and then for the brunt assault I have my guards (buffed with -1 hit, and with a mythic shield) to try to charge in first, or take the hit. While my 40 Skinks deal decent damage from the rear together with my Celestial Hurricanum. This one is less tanky, but hopefully the damage will be enough to take away his own damage first.

    How good do you feel Skinks are when they are a 40 unit horde? They only wound on 5 and 6, but they still get 40 attacks.
     
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  4. Killer Angel
    Carnasaur

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    Those 40 attacks will hit on 2+, rerolling 1s. It will be 38-39 to wound, so we are talking about 12-13 successful hits.
    Even with no rend, it's solid. ;)
     
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  5. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Alright, sounds like a plan! :D

    Also, me and my little brother have started on our models, but we actually had another loadout in mind.

    The original loadout was 6 units/batallions that you could put down, and this one is 7, so there's a good chance my opponent will start first. However, this is the one:

    Warrior Heart
    Scar Veteran on Carnosaur: 260 (General, Relic blade item on spear, Charge or Defender command trait)
    Loremaster: 100
    Celestial Hurricanum: 320 (phoenix stone item)
    Starseer: 160
    Skink Priest: 100

    Unit of 15 Chameleon Skinks: 360

    Sunclaw Starhost: 80
    Sunblood: 120
    Unit of 40 Warriors: 400
    Unit of 10 Warriors: 100
    Unit of 10 Warriors: 100

    Total point cost: 1980


    How does this sound compared to the original one? You willl lose the flexibility of having another 40 extra skinks, but the damage of your warriors will go up exponentially thanks to the extra attacks, the -1 rend, as well as the extra Sunblood. Plus instead of the Terradon unit you have 5 more Chameleon Skinks.
     
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  6. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    Interesting list, celestial Hurricanum as we know is such a great unit, and you have a strong fighting force to complememt it. With the loremaster for rerolls and chameleon skinks for deep strike sniping you have a great set up.
     
  7. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    My little brother and I wanted to build something we could also use in competetive matches :) We were a bit torn between this setup which improves the Warriors greatly, or this one with Skinks and a Starpriest instead:

    Scar Veteran on Carnosaur: 260 (General, Relic blade item on spear, Charge or Defender command trait)
    Lor
    emaster: 100
    Celestial Hurricanum: 320 (phoenix stone item)

    Shadowstrike Starhost:
    Skink StarPriest: 100
    Terradon Riders: 140
    Unit of 10 Chameleon Skinks: 240
    Unit of 40 Skinks: 320


    Unit of 40 Warriors: 400
    Unit of 10 Warriors: 100


    This list has the advantage of having a second line of offensive fire behind the warriors. With the Starpriest only buffing that single stack of 40 warriors, which is behind the un-buffed line of 10 warriors who will be sacrificial canon fodder. However the "Warrior heart" list has the Starseer (great with rerolls) and the Skink Priest who with the Curse of fates and rerolls will have a higher chance of giving the aura save reroll buff to all your units.

    Which of these two armies would you prefer yourself?
     
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  8. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    Both lists work well, but I think the second works a bit better because of the versatility.
     
  9. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    So you mean the one with the Shadowstrike Starhost and the Skinks?
     
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  10. Bowser
    OldBlood

    Bowser Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's the one.
     
  11. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Alright, thanks :)
     
  12. InfamousBeany
    Cold One

    InfamousBeany Well-Known Member

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    Just browsing through this thread and saw this- remember that the Loremaster's unique spell targets a single model, not a unit.
     
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  13. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    Wait, are you sure?
     
  14. InfamousBeany
    Cold One

    InfamousBeany Well-Known Member

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    I quote:

    HAND OF GLORY
    With a simple sign the Loremaster grants
    his allies the might of old. Hand of Glory
    has a casting value of 5. If successfully cast,
    pick a model within 18". Until your next
    hero phase you can re-roll all failed hit
    rolls and wound rolls for that model.
     
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  15. Nielspeterdejong
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    Nielspeterdejong Well-Known Member

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    A damn, that kinda ruins the idea I had for the hand of glory on my Warrior stack. Oh well, cest la vie.
     
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