8th Ed. Cupped hands of the Old ones / Throne of Vines / Hellheart

ok so this is a three part question in regards to miscasts and items.

1. Cupped hands of the Old ones.

so my slann miscasts, I announce I am using this item, I nominate an enemy mage in LOS, roll my dice, pass the test and direct my miscast on my opponent. I then roll on the miscasts table as per normal and roll a 5. the book says ignore a result of 5-6, does that mean nothing happens on either mage or do you reroll on the table?

2. Throne of Vines

now the above miscast in question was to cast this spell which went of with irresistable force. Does that mean that I could have negated the miscast I just had with the spells ability to negate a miscast on 2+? Or would that NOT come into play until the initial miscast was resolved?

3. Lastly this is a question in regards to the Ogre Kingdom item Hellheart (I think thats what its called)

my Ogre Kingdom buddy briefly showed me the item in his book and I cant recall it in its entirety but its something to do with causing all enemy mages to roll on the miscast table and then the OK player gets a certain amount of power dice back in return. The question is, does the cupped hands or throne of vines work to negate the slann from rolling on the miscast table and in cupped hands case possibly even direct the miscast onto the Slaughtermaster?

 

Ignore first question I guess, failed to look through FAQ and Errata. It looks like that stupid chaos wizard should have ate that miscast

 

2. Yes, you get to ignore the miscast, as spells are resolved first, then miscast.

3. I would say yes, as it is still a miscast

 

A couple of points: First, you get to roll the miscast before you decide whether or not to transfer the miscast, so you may want to keep it if it is a relatively harmless miscast. Second, per the FAQ, you don't ignore 5-6 anymore, so whichever wizard suffers the miscast will take the effects as usual.

The spell takes effect before the miscast, so you will get to roll to ignore the miscast if you cast Throne of Vines with Irresistible Force.

 

As MI_Tiger said, you roll the miscast before using cupped. This is really important so you can direct the most devastating miscast at your opponent. If you get the one that causes a single hit on all your casters, meh I'd take that one and hope for another miscast with a big template explosion or power drain.

 

If a Wizard has succesfully cast Throne of Vines and then while Throne of Vines is in play Miscasts, are they able to use Cupped hands to send miscast on enemy mage before rolling to negate the miscast? or can this only be done at this point if you fail to prevent the miscast by rolling a "1" on your Throne of Vines roll?

 

You can decide which one to resolve first. I rarely take cupped hands when I take life as it is a little redundant but if you would like to roll to pass the spell before rolling to ignore the miscast with throne that is your option.

 

Thats good to know, I tend to like a bit of redundancy in my lists, as throne of Vines is not a guarantee to be active at all times. I will likely have to find some rule confirmation as my buddy seems to think that I would have to attempt to negate the miscast with the throne of vines and not be able to force the miscast on him, unless I failed the throne of vines roll.

 

Throne is always up for me. If its my magic phase I throw 4 or 5 dice at it just to make sure. Heck I threw 7 dice at it once just because I needed toughness 8 and a 4+ regen on my templeguard. Let them dispel it on their magic phase. Less dice for them to cast something important with.

That is in either the big FAQ or the Lizardman FAQ. Im pretty sure its in the big one. It says that for any items that affect a miscast in any way the person who current turn it is decides the order they are used.

 

throne ignores the miscast, cupped hands pass the miscast result. result is your key word here. throne takes place before you roll on the table, cupped hands after you roll and know the result.

 

6 dice is maximum you can throw at a spell. So a rumination slann can only ever throw 5 PD from the pool at a spell (with rumination providing the 6th). Unless you did this in 7th edition, I'm pretty sure you pulled a fast one on your opponent.

 

Unfortunately I'm at work and cant look at the book but I'm pretty sure the rule in the Lizardman book states that the bonus die can take you above your allowed casting die limit. Unless that has been faq'd to change it the army book trumps the BRB. The bonus die does count against your 12 dice in the power pool limit. So if you are at max power pool than you can't use the free die.

 

I've seen some contention on the wording of cupped hands where RAW you would have to use it on the first miscast and don't get the option to decide to use it on a later miscast. I'm pretty sure the intention is you can decide to use it based on the miscast result but I can see people having a valid argument the other way based on the specific wording. Thoughts?

 

I've often thought that the wording on Cupped Hands could be taken to mean the first miscast and only the first miscast. The wording (like so much of GW writing) is very ambiguous and could be taken either way;

"One use only. If the bearer miscasts, roll a D6. On a roll of..."

I've always taken it to mean that I can choose whether or not to use the item as I figure that if it was meant to be first use they would have phrased it differently; "On the first miscast, roll a D6", or something to that extent.

@Battlehamster, the Lizzie book states that the extra dice can be used to increase the powerdice beyond the maximum. As far as I'm aware, it hasn't been altered in the FAQs.

 

@Arli I usually throw 3 or 4 plus the free one but some turns I really need that boosted regen or boosted flesh to stone and will throw 7 to guarantee a throne of vines goes off.

@Zakharov I agree the wording is ambiguous. I've always played it as you have the option to use it or not and no one I've played against has argued. Of course I have also stopped taking it as much. It just feels really cheesy to take especially since I almost always take rumination and can throw 7 dice at something.