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AoS Fear the Bloodbomb

Discussion in 'Battle Reports' started by Killer Angel, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Killer Angel
    Skink Chief

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday I fought against a khorne list (2000 pts)
    To say that I losed hard would be an underestimation of what has been my worst defeat since I play AoS.
    I lost the game in the first turn, without even play.

    I was fielding a list for fun, that on paper got certainly strong points, but overall cannot stand as a all-comer list: I was playing the Klaq-Tor's Talon battallion, the one with Oldblood on Carno, 2 ScarVet on Carno and knights, supporting it with starseer, starpriest, troglodn and 3 units of skinks as screen.

    My opponent was fielding a force of 30 bloodletters, 3 skullcannons, 10 wrathmongers, an herald, 3 of those guys with the whip, some barbarian and a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage.

    I knew the weak points of my list, but I was playing for fun, just for the sake to field 3 carnos and spread some havoc.
    My opponent said that also his was a "test" list, just to see how it worked (in the same day, i knew that the list has been "tested" at least two other times, against Ogres and Beastmen, with equal results. Nice way to be a jerk).
    He ended first.

    He buffed the bloodthirster and charged my strong core of units, where there was the Oldblood.
    me: "I attack first with my oldblood because of the artefact - potion".
    him: "Wait, I didn't knew of that!"
    me: "Well, I said you that I was equipped with the potion"
    him: "Yeah, but i didn't knew what it does, otherwise I would have never charged the oldblood!"
    me (pondering on the fact that we were playing for fun - or so I was thinking): "well, if you want to change the target of the charge, you're free to do it"

    Once i knew what the Bloodthirster can do, but not following chaos, i forgot it.
    Otrageous carnage: if the wound roll for the Great Axe is 6+, each enemy unit within 8" suffers a certain number of mortal wounds (3, at full health of the daemon).
    5 Attacks of Great Axe tnx to the artefact, a +1 to wound tnx to formation of daemon cohort, another +1 to wound tnx to the general's ability, re-roll failed to hit (don't remember if only the 1s).
    basically 5 Attacks with some re-roll that delivers mortal wound in a 8" area for any 4+.
    4 successful to hit, 3 "to wound" that rolled 4+.
    9 mortal wounds to all the units within 8":
    - the Oldblood on carno
    - a carvet on carno
    - the troglodon
    - a unit of knights
    - a unit of skinks
    - the starpriest

    9 mortal wounds to 5 units, are 45 mortal wounds. In turn 1. Do you want to compare it to a Bastiladon with an ark of Sotek?

    I don't know you, but any combo (and not a difficult one!) that let a 280 pts model deal 45 mortal wounds in an area, is frankly broken. It basically gives the victory to daemons, because there's (almost) no way an army can absorb such a damage at the beginning of the game and still be able to fight back.
    But apparently, it was Lord Kroak the one that was broken...

    him: "oppss, i forgot to shoot with the cannons, can I do it now?"
    me: "fuck you."

    Now, leaving aside the sportmanship of my "friend", the core problem remains.
    at 2000 pts, that daemon list is heavy, and at 2500 is even worse (as you give more targets to the daemon)
    Who uses such a khorne list (and knows what's doing) will play with relatively few units, to be the first player; the daemon will be placed lastly, to field it near the targets he wants to obliterate.
    The daemon flies, can re-roll charges, starts with a 10" move but the whip guys will give a +6" / +9" bonus on the charge, basically letting it cross the battlefield in tun one.

    There are literally no way I can think of, to avoid such attack.
    Spreading your units is of a little use: at 2000 or 2500 pts there will be a point where 3-4 units will be targettable, and anyway with units scattered across the battlefield, you will lose the mandatory synergies, vital for us, that requires a certain proximity. And you won't be able to kill the daemon, that will do his trick again.

    This is a huge threat, and one of the most worrying I have faced.
    If you play Tomb Kings (an army that can replenish dead models for free and with relative ease), you should be relatively fine, but any other army would be shattered.


    It's a whole day I'm thinking on it, and I can think to only two ways to deal with such a threat:
    - act first, and kill the daemon before its first turn
    - have a set-up that can soften the damage

    I will shortly add this to the tactica thread "How to deal with threats", as this is very specific situation, but also a highly dangerous one, and I fear it will become not so rare when facing Khorne.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
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  2. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    This is pretty killer. A good argument for moxed armies, even if it is for chaos. A straight Seraphon army may have some issues dealing with this one though. Keep deployment to a minimum by choosing multiple Batallions would help.
     
  3. Crowsfoot
    OldBlood

    Crowsfoot Well-Known Member

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    Think that sums it up nicely.
     
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  4. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Haha! In a friendlier game I would let them go back, but in this situation you made the right call!
     
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  5. Dwarfslaan
    Jungle Swarm

    Dwarfslaan New Member

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    I know this is a really late reply but as someone that plays both Seraphon and Khorne I felt the need to respond when I saw the post. Sounds like you got played in this game.

    I assume the "barbarian" was a Lord of Khorne on Juggernaught. As its command ability is the one that does +1 to wound on the charge. With your opponents army comp if he goes first there should be no way for the bloodthirster to charge turn 1 as you should start 24 inches apart. Even with plus 9 to charge he still has to be within 12inches to declare a charge and with movement 10 and no ability to run and charge he should fall 2inches short of being able to declare.

    Best way for you to counter that tactic is to then counter charge robbing him of his bonuses from the formation and general as they only count on the turn the bloodthirster charges. The scariest thing in that list is actually the wrathmongers they should under no circumstances be allowed near monsters and should preferably be ranged to death.
     
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  6. Killer Angel
    Skink Chief

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    First of all, tnx for the input.
    Now, i don't remember exactly how it went, but the bloodstoker can give their +3" bonus also to run, with 3 of them it means their "target" can run almost to your battleline.
    Does Khorne grant some way to run and charge?
     
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  7. Dwarfslaan
    Jungle Swarm

    Dwarfslaan New Member

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    There are only two chaos models I personally know of that would let Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage charge turn one. They are Forgeworld's Sayl the Faithless who has a spell that grants 18inch movement and flying & Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster that allows one Khorne Daemon unit to run and charge. It's an extra 360 points though and would take away one of the +1s to wound.
     
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  8. Lachlin
    Cold One

    Lachlin Well-Known Member

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    him: "Yeah, but i didn't knew what it does, otherwise I would have never charged the oldblood!"

    Sounds like his problem, not yours. He's a tool by all accounts and you shouldn't have let him take back his charge. Your carnesaur would have made short work of the blood thirster (or at least hurt him enough that it would not have stung so much when he got to swing)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
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  9. Joshua Horchler
    Cold One

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Something I learned through playing 40k and the guys over at Frontlinegaming.org taught me this as well, is to ask your opponent, before the game, about what type of army they brought and what its gimmicks are. Even in tournament settings, you should be asking questions before the game starts. Personally, I am always open to people asking me questions, especially when I bring something that I know is highly competitive and has some cheese. If your opponents are not willing to have a basic, friendly conversation with you, then they are not the type of people you want to be playing.

    I will also add to what the others are saying, when you are playing against and with a fast, melee oriented army, you need to take your time with deployment. I think if you went back into the game, knew a little bit more about his army, and deployed better, the whole game would have changed. Every tabletop game I play, I spend a lot of time during deployment and movement in the first turn or so. It is so crucial and should never be over looked.

    Best of luck to you in the future and remember, you can always ask your opponent before games to explain their army a litte. Don't be afraid to set the tone for the game with a friendly conversation.
     
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  10. Killer Angel
    Skink Chief

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, sometime you learn a lot from this kind of awful games...
     
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