Yesterday I fought against a khorne list (2000 pts) To say that I losed hard would be an underestimation of what has been my worst defeat since I play AoS. I lost the game in the first turn, without even play. I was fielding a list for fun, that on paper got certainly strong points, but overall cannot stand as a all-comer list: I was playing the Klaq-Tor's Talon battallion, the one with Oldblood on Carno, 2 ScarVet on Carno and knights, supporting it with starseer, starpriest, troglodn and 3 units of skinks as screen. My opponent was fielding a force of 30 bloodletters, 3 skullcannons, 10 wrathmongers, an herald, 3 of those guys with the whip, some barbarian and a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage. I knew the weak points of my list, but I was playing for fun, just for the sake to field 3 carnos and spread some havoc. My opponent said that also his was a "test" list, just to see how it worked (in the same day, i knew that the list has been "tested" at least two other times, against Ogres and Beastmen, with equal results. Nice way to be a jerk). He ended first. He buffed the bloodthirster and charged my strong core of units, where there was the Oldblood. me: "I attack first with my oldblood because of the artefact - potion". him: "Wait, I didn't knew of that!" me: "Well, I said you that I was equipped with the potion" him: "Yeah, but i didn't knew what it does, otherwise I would have never charged the oldblood!" me (pondering on the fact that we were playing for fun - or so I was thinking): "well, if you want to change the target of the charge, you're free to do it" Once i knew what the Bloodthirster can do, but not following chaos, i forgot it. Otrageous carnage: if the wound roll for the Great Axe is 6+, each enemy unit within 8" suffers a certain number of mortal wounds (3, at full health of the daemon). 5 Attacks of Great Axe tnx to the artefact, a +1 to wound tnx to formation of daemon cohort, another +1 to wound tnx to the general's ability, re-roll failed to hit (don't remember if only the 1s). basically 5 Attacks with some re-roll that delivers mortal wound in a 8" area for any 4+. 4 successful to hit, 3 "to wound" that rolled 4+. 9 mortal wounds to all the units within 8": - the Oldblood on carno - a carvet on carno - the troglodon - a unit of knights - a unit of skinks - the starpriest 9 mortal wounds to 5 units, are 45 mortal wounds. In turn 1. Do you want to compare it to a Bastiladon with an ark of Sotek? I don't know you, but any combo (and not a difficult one!) that let a 280 pts model deal 45 mortal wounds in an area, is frankly broken. It basically gives the victory to daemons, because there's (almost) no way an army can absorb such a damage at the beginning of the game and still be able to fight back. But apparently, it was Lord Kroak the one that was broken... him: "oppss, i forgot to shoot with the cannons, can I do it now?" me: "fuck you." Now, leaving aside the sportmanship of my "friend", the core problem remains. at 2000 pts, that daemon list is heavy, and at 2500 is even worse (as you give more targets to the daemon) Who uses such a khorne list (and knows what's doing) will play with relatively few units, to be the first player; the daemon will be placed lastly, to field it near the targets he wants to obliterate. The daemon flies, can re-roll charges, starts with a 10" move but the whip guys will give a +6" / +9" bonus on the charge, basically letting it cross the battlefield in tun one. There are literally no way I can think of, to avoid such attack. Spreading your units is of a little use: at 2000 or 2500 pts there will be a point where 3-4 units will be targettable, and anyway with units scattered across the battlefield, you will lose the mandatory synergies, vital for us, that requires a certain proximity. And you won't be able to kill the daemon, that will do his trick again. This is a huge threat, and one of the most worrying I have faced. If you play Tomb Kings (an army that can replenish dead models for free and with relative ease), you should be relatively fine, but any other army would be shattered. It's a whole day I'm thinking on it, and I can think to only two ways to deal with such a threat: - act first, and kill the daemon before its first turn - have a set-up that can soften the damage I will shortly add this to the tactica thread "How to deal with threats", as this is very specific situation, but also a highly dangerous one, and I fear it will become not so rare when facing Khorne.