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AoS Flamethrowers on stegadons

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Canas, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    What's your opinion on the flamethrowers? I mean, obviously they're anti-horde weapons, and against a unit of 40 they should do a decent chunk of damage. But at 3+/3+/-/1 they rather quickly lose power against smaller groups.

    They don't have rend, they only do 1 damage, they're not that reliable. What do you think is the lowest unit size against which they still "work"?
     
  2. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    I did some statistical analysis on them a while back and I think the breakeven point against Ardboyz (4+ save) was actually pretty low, 12 models in range or so.
    Against Skeletons or Bonesplitterz it was pretty good IIRC.
     
  3. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Meh, if a 4+ already requires 12 of em it's rather worse than I expected... would like for the thing to actually be useable on units of 5 as well... I don't get why the thing doesn't have rend or something. It's still a flamethrower, that it effective against groups makes sense, that it somehow becomes completly ineffective against small ones is weird...
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  4. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Yeah rend -1 and the Salamanders' ability to burn would be cool....
     
  5. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    The salamanders burn-like ability would be perfect. Especially as it won't increase the damage against a horde much while being a good improvement against single models. Though I would change the condition for it slightly. 1 attack at 3+/3+/-/1 isn't going to cause many wounds against singlemodel units which frequently have better defenses. Change it to proc on say a succesfull wound rule and it'd be useable.

    On a sidenote, what exactly is the point of the javalins thrown by the skinks on stegadons and bastiladons? 4 attacks at 5+/4+/-/1 isn't exactly going to get anywhere. Wouldn't it be more usefull to just have an extra horn attack or two?
     
  6. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    I think it just stems from a time when 4+ was considered a good save and we still had the Skink Chief to buff them.
    Not too effective, that's right. But they aren't the main weapon anyway.
     
  7. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Meh,it's not so much "not the main weapon" as much as it's just something extra that's nearly useless. But since it's ranged and more than 1 attack you just know it'l add a decent chunk of points. It has the potential of another 4 wounds, which is significant. And at range, making a charging stegadon much more difficult to properly stop from reaching a wizard hiding in the back, which as said is definitly going to be costly. But with 5+/4+/- it's rarely actually going to amount to anything, and that's without taking into account the opponent has a save. It's kinda weird to have an attack on a big bad monster that is going to average somewhere around a single wound per game.

    Anyways, slight detour, back to flamethrowers ;)

    Before AoS did those flamethrowers happen to be more effective in some way? if only cuz as far as I can tell the armies where generally bigger and 5-man units basicly didn't exist?
     
  8. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Before AoS those weren't flame throwers I think, but giant blowpipes.
     
  9. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    I have never used them, and I don't plan to. Thus my position on the matter should be clear enough. ;)
     
    Canas likes this.
  10. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Before AoS did those flamethrowers giant blowpipes happen to be more effective in some way? if only cuz as far as I can tell the armies where generally bigger and 5-man units basicly didn't exist?

    Better? :p
     
    Aginor likes this.
  11. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Yeah but actually I don't know the answer, since I started playing Warhammer just a bit more than a year ago.

    I think they are pretty decent against hordes so I will use them for that.
     
  12. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Meh, I had hoped for it to still be decent against smaller units/decimated hordes. But without rend, or some special effects, anything below 10 does seem to be a waste to target with it. Especially if it also has a vaguely decent save. Ah well...
     
  13. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    One of the problems is that the Stegadon is not designed to deal with hordes of small / normal sized models with average / low saves. Its primary targets are different, and so you would put on a Steggy a kind of shooting weapon that works against units you usually don't go against.
     
  14. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    mwha, crushing stomps fit fairly well as an anti horde attack as well. High number of attacks, low damage and no rend. It has fairly similar stats to the sunfire throwers (in fact slightly worse hit). The only difference is that its based on d6's instead of enemy model count. So the flamethrowers don't feel that out of place imo.
     
  15. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    You certainly have a point, however flamethrower is specifically designed against hordes, while crushing stomps work in the same way also against small units. I can charge 3 Khurnot Hunters and still I'll do 3d6 attacks.


    Let's say that a horde-killer steggy with stomps, flames and horns could effectively wreck particular targets (say a horde of 40 dwarfs warriors defending an objective), but I would never insert it in an all-comers list.
     
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