8th Ed. "Herohammer, 8th edition" tournament rules

[SilverFaith]

i've been contemplating on where to put this. It's a special tournament with a strong focus on characters, which means tons of house rules - hence why I placed it here. I originally wanted to post this to get some suggestions and thoughts on these rules, but considering how heavily houseruled this is, it seems more fitting to place it here.

I will list the differences, and then I'd really like to hear your opinions on how this affects a lizardmen player such as myself.

1. We have 2000+1000 points. The 2000 points are distributed as usual, except you can't take lords. The 1000 points are exclusively for lords.
2. Lords double their magic item allowances
3. Lords can take 2 of the same magic weapon as a paired weapon for +50% of the original cost.
4. Lords channel on a 5+ base, which can be improved with items (Channeling would put them at 4+). 6s allows a new roll with a chance of getting yet another die. This can only happen once. (think predatory fighter)
5. Lone lords (including on any mounts) automatically break steadfast, and are considered unbreakable.
6. Shooting on lords are resolved at -1 to hit. This penalty always occurs, no matter what special rules the shooting unit might have. In close combat, enemies always have a -1 to hit the Lord character as well.
7. No shooting attack can ever inflict multiple wounds (the special rule) a lord character.
8. When a lord is slain in a challenge, his unit automatically breaks, regardless of any special rules.
9. Lords are immune to fear and terror.
10. Lords are always immune to Kiilling blow, but are still vulnerable to Heroic Killing blow.

Now, my first thought on seeing this list was "Holy shit, this benefis me and the VC llayers far more than the Empire, Dwarf, OK, TK, DE, WE and HE players we have". I am thankful that I have no chaos players in my local area, because they'd likely be hell to fight against. My second thought was that, considering how powerful oldbloods can be by themselves already, how insane would an Oldblood wih 200 points of magic gear be? Sword of realities with actual defences, or maybe a potion of strength to make those hits counts. The channel on 5+, "pf" on 6s also seems insane for a Slann who gets channel on 4+ with channeling staff, and 3 dice to channel with. We would see an insane amounts of power dice compared to pretty much everyone else.

Some of these rules seem pretty stupid to me, but the whole idea is to test out a sort of "Herohammer, 8th edition version", so I kinda see the point - though it seems to massively favour some armies over others.

Keep in mind: This is rules "for fun", but still the basis for a small tournament we ar going to have.

What's your thoughts on this, and how would you build an army with these rules in effect?

 

[Link_t_c]

That sounds pretty crazy, I have 2 chaos players at my local GW, one runs a tzench lord on a chaos dragon (wow, 3+ wards) and the other runs the killiest krone lord on juggernaught I've ever seen, oh and he is accompanied by 5 blood crushers. Both run a deamon price, tzench lord guy runs nurgle (he likes tough units) the khorne lord runs Slanesh (he likes Killy units). I would be terrified of just these guys as between their lords they have it set, also beastmen auto lose.

 

[SilverFaith]

That sounds pretty crazy, I have 2 chaos players at my local GW, one runs a tzench lord on a chaos dragon (wow, 3+ wards) and the other runs the killiest krone lord on juggernaught I've ever seen, oh and he is accompanied by 5 blood crushers. Both run a deamon price, tzench lord guy runs nurgle (he likes tough units) the khorne lord runs Slanesh (he likes Killy units). I would be terrified of just these guys as between their lords they have it set, also beastmen auto lose.

Chaos lords seem mostly OP because of how unkillable they are. But considering that it is very easy to make a super tough Oldblood with the standard 1+/4++ with a potion of strength + blade of realities, I wouldn't be all that afraid of his wards. 5 S8 attacks that ignores saves is pretty bad for most characters. Slap him in a unit with flaming banner, and even regen wont stop him. Best of all, even if they take an item that grants 2+ ward against flaming attacks, you are still ignoring it with BoR.

BoR is balanced by taking up the entire magic allowance. When this isn't true, you can now feasibly make him ridicuously tough to kill, on top of being able to slice through anything like it was butter. That's pretty sick.

Don't know much about beastmen, except for the fact that they should be pretty underpowered at the moment. They are getting tomb king'd soon, though, being able to take marks of chaos and such.

 

[Kcibrihp-Esurc]

That sounds pretty crazy, I have 2 chaos players at my local GW, one runs a tzench lord on a chaos dragon (wow, 3+ wards) and the other runs the killiest krone lord on juggernaught I've ever seen, oh and he is accompanied by 5 blood crushers. Both run a deamon price, tzench lord guy runs nurgle (he likes tough units) the khorne lord runs Slanesh (he likes Killy units). I would be terrified of just these guys as between their lords they have it set, also beastmen auto lose.

Chaos lords seem mostly OP because of how unkillable they are. But considering that it is very easy to make a super tough Oldblood with the standard 1+/4++ with a potion of strength + blade of realities, I wouldn't be all that afraid of his wards. 5 S8 attacks that ignores saves is pretty bad for most characters. Slap him in a unit with flaming banner, and even regen wont stop him. Best of all, even if they take an item that grants 2+ ward against flaming attacks, you are still ignoring it with BoR.

BoR is balanced by taking up the entire magic allowance. When this isn't true, you can now feasibly make him ridicuously tough to kill, on top of being able to slice through anything like it was butter. That's pretty sick.

Don't know much about beastmen, except for the fact that they should be pretty underpowered at the moment. They are getting tomb king'd soon, though, being able to take marks of chaos and such.

No one uses the BoR because it sucks up all the points but with this the Carno Cowboy builds go off the floor and through the roof

P.S I don't know any Beastmen players but that's not surprising as apparently Beastmen suck the KUMARA!!

 

[SilverFaith]

No one uses the BoR because it sucks up all the points but with this the Carno Cowboy builds go off the floor and through the roof

*Ahem*

Sarus Oldblood - 575pts
Light Armour and shield to ensure 1+ AS if/when thrown off his carno
Potion of Strength - to ensure his hits hurt
Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza - gives him some impact hits, but more importantly, +1 T
Talisman of Protection - 4+ wardsave is nice
The Blade of Realities - no saves aside from regen

Carnasour with Bloodroar

Regen is a damn shame, honestly, but this build is horrific for anyone on the recieving end. Even horde armies will feel the pain when hit by a monster like this, and even if you get him off his carnosaur, he'll still chop clean through most people anyway.

JEDI SAURUS, HERE I COME.

 

[lordkingcrow]

This would be... interesting. I really like your build, I think I would run something just like that. I've always loved the Blade of Realities, but at such a high price it makes it extremely difficult to field. I did it once in a 2v2 7000 vs 7000 point game. I took two oldbloods, one with the main focus to kill a nasty Nurgal Daemon Prince, but the other one engaged it first and they killed each other. (Super fun game by the way).

I think the only rule in your tournament I don't care for is number 8 where his unit automatically breaks. It would almost be more fun to design it like a monster reaction. Roll 1-3 and the unit flees upon seeing the lifeless body of their leader, 4-5 and they fight to hold over him until they die to a man or the enemy flees, and on a 6 they become an unbreakable/frenzied unit, determined to cut a bloody swath of vengeance.

 

[Kcibrihp-Esurc]

This would be... interesting. I really like your build, I think I would run something just like that. I've always loved the Blade of Realities, but at such a high price it makes it extremely difficult to field. I did it once in a 2v2 7000 vs 7000 point game. I took two oldbloods, one with the main focus to kill a nasty Nurgal Daemon Prince, but the other one engaged it first and they killed each other. (Super fun game by the way).

I think the only rule in your tournament I don't care for is number 8 where his unit automatically breaks. It would almost be more fun to design it like a monster reaction. Roll 1-3 and the unit flees upon seeing the lifeless body of their leader, 4-5 and they fight to hold over him until they die to a man or the enemy flees, and on a 6 they become an unbreakable/frenzied unit, determined to cut a bloody swath of vengeance.

Second paragraph YES
I do love the concept of the Blade of Realities but generally speaking it's too expensive, but with 200 points I think we would see a LOT more of them

 

[SilverFaith]

I think the only rule in your tournament I don't care for is number 8 where his unit automatically breaks. It would almost be more fun to design it like a monster reaction. Roll 1-3 and the unit flees upon seeing the lifeless body of their leader, 4-5 and they fight to hold over him until they die to a man or the enemy flees, and on a 6 they become an unbreakable/frenzied unit, determined to cut a bloody swath of vengeance.

Yeah, that would be far more awesome. The rule is pretty wonky in a lot of cases, mostly because it is written as a "This always happens, no exception", which a few VC players have been confused about as well - the TO haven't answered the questions yet, but is compiling a list of clarifications, but as is, ANYTHING can break, including otherwise unbreakable units - even things like skeletons.

It's even more wonky when you consider the fact that some lords are specfically pointed out as not being leaders, and thus shouldn't cause a unit to break because they died - they might have been a really good warrior, but they were still just that - a warrior. They didn't rally behind him, rather it was him just chilling with the unit in question-

I might offer that idea as an option, though... it sounds really cool having a unit watchh its leader die, and then go into an unbreakable frenzy and start murdering the offending unit. I can totally see a Temple guard unit do such a thing after watching their slann die.

 

[Kcibrihp-Esurc]

I think the only rule in your tournament I don't care for is number 8 where his unit automatically breaks. It would almost be more fun to design it like a monster reaction. Roll 1-3 and the unit flees upon seeing the lifeless body of their leader, 4-5 and they fight to hold over him until they die to a man or the enemy flees, and on a 6 they become an unbreakable/frenzied unit, determined to cut a bloody swath of vengeance.

Yeah, that would be far more awesome. The rule is pretty wonky in a lot of cases, mostly because it is written as a "This always happens, no exception", which a few VC players have been confused about as well - the TO haven't answered the questions yet, but is compiling a list of clarifications, but as is, ANYTHING can break, including otherwise unbreakable units - even things like skeletons.

It's even more wonky when you consider the fact that some lords are specfically pointed out as not being leaders, and thus shouldn't cause a unit to break because they died - they might have been a really good warrior, but they were still just that - a warrior. They didn't rally behind him, rather it was him just chilling with the unit in question-

I might offer that idea as an option, though... it sounds really cool having a unit watchh its leader die, and then go into an unbreakable frenzy and start murdering the offending unit. I can totally see a Temple guard unit do such a thing after watching their slann die.

Yeah, I'm with you on your last paragraph and it would be hugely unbalanced in certain people's favour as Vampire Counts eat Heroes & Lords because when you kit them for combat they're EVIL same with our Oldbloods and/or Carnos
and Brettonnia's bad enough because of their Heroic Killing Blow! And so long as they have the points they can field AS MANY AS THEY WANT!! Also Daemon Princes would be even MORE useful and they don't need that so why not do:

'If a Lord is Killed in a Challenge if he was in a Unit that unit must take a Leadership test, if they fail they break if they succeed by more than half they gain Hatred for the Victor, Frenzy and Stubborn as long as The Victor is alive

If The Loser was The BSB the unit gains Unbreakable instead of Stubborn or Breaks and cannot Rally if The Loser was the General the Entire Army gains Hatred, Frenzy and Stubborn instead or the Enemy gains 500 Victory Points and D3 other units also break'

This makes people less likely to risk High Value Models like Generals as they could cost them the game and it adds more value to High Leadership Units (Temple Guard as an example)

Yes that is horrifyingly overpowered but I'm tired and felt like adding EXTRA pain onto losing a Slann BSB General