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8th Ed. How do you construct your core?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Army Lists' started by Fusilli, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Fusilli
    Skink

    Fusilli New Member

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    My friends and I play etc games which are set at 2400pts, meaning min 600pts core. Etc rules also cap Lizardmen at having 5 units of skink skirmishers, leaving me with 250 pts of core to spend. As there are only 3 core troop types then options are limited. Here're the different options that I see:

    Saurus + full command - a classic block.
    Skroxigor cohort - personally I'd go 24+3 but that T4, WS3, 4+ for 50ppm does worry me.
    Skink cohort tar pit - spend it all on skinks, be steadfast. But how viable is this?
    Skroxigor darts - 8 skinks, 1 kroxigor x2? 3?

    To put this into context the rest of my army is

    Slann BSB, SOS, BC, Earthing rod, High - loremaster
    Scar vet, CO, Gambler's armour, Dawnstone, Great weapon
    Skink priest, dispel scroll

    5*10 skink skirmishers

    25 temp guard w/standard & musician
    5 chameleons
    Baby steg

    2 salamanders, 1 extra handler
    Ancient steg

    What would you do and why?
     
  2. Screamer
    Temple Guard

    Screamer Member

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    The great part is that anything is viable :)

    Mostly it depends on what kind of game you want to play, and whats good is mostly depending on what your opponent brings.


    The rest of your list counters monsters (skink skirmishers), Hordes (salamander), and have two supportchargers (stegadons)

    You don't have any reliable counter vs 1+AS.
    Add 2 small blocks w 10 skinks and 1 kroxigor. They can countercharge cavalry and be used as redirectors (they get Ld 7 from the krox).

    Or 1 block with 30 skinks, and 2 blocks with 10. The small blocks can be fed to dangerous units at an angle to get them out of the way, the big block can tarpit a monster or units with few ranks for a few rounds.

    Or add a saurusblock to remove steadfast and grind infantry units. Against S6 skinks and saurus die at the same rate, choose the targets accordingly.

    If you want to play "skink cloud"-like, just add 10-man skink cohorts until the points run out.

    Mostly it's just a matter of preference, and what suits your playstyle.
     
  3. Zwuppie
    Razordon

    Zwuppie Member

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    I don't agree with that.. 30 skinks without a character is nice for being steadfast.. when taking leadership test on ld5 it would become tricky to play. I use 23 skinks with a chief and priest in it! Poisoned attacks and a better leadership, giving the chief an egg of quango and you have a combination which could kill at least 6 trolls, monsters (poisoned) and having steadfast for the first two rounds!

    Kroxigors are an option but tricky since they can be sniped!
     
  4. godswearhats
    Saurus

    godswearhats New Member

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    11 skinks + Kroxigor gives a nice 3x5 footprint and if you add musician and std it's a nice round 125 points. Take 2 units to make your 250.

    This little unit works really well to disrupt ranks if you put them in the flank. Most players will focus on your Skirmishers.
     
  5. Screamer
    Temple Guard

    Screamer Member

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    I think a kroxigor is more durable than a skink chief? Maybe I'm wrong here, but T4, 4+ sv and avoiding the support attacks, compared to T3, 4+ sv (with LA, shield and no magic item)? And it's all from the core-requirement.

    23 poison skinks is only 161 pts core, not the required 250 pts.

    11 skinks+1krox+mus+std in 5x3 formation is unable to disrupt units if 4 skinks is killed. If you skip the mus+std and add skinks instead you still remove ranks if 7 skinks die.
     
  6. Zwuppie
    Razordon

    Zwuppie Member

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    Agreed but it was a suggestion, you can fill it up with a skirmisher regiment! The benefit of a chief and priest in a unit is that they won't get sniped by cannonballs.. kroxigors have no look out sir! then the math -> Egg of quango vs kroxigor!

    So yeah they are viable, but not the best i think! And i have played for a while with this unit and it worked perfectly!
     
  7. Kharn The Betrayer
    Razordon

    Kharn The Betrayer New Member

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    I think you need more sustainability so id say Saurus block but its really up to your playstyle
     
  8. Fusilli
    Skink

    Fusilli New Member

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    I played with Skrox darts today and it worked quite well. It's basically a case of making sure that your darts are on the flanks, using them as counter charges, so that your opponent isn't putting too many attacks on the Krox. They also make fairly good redirectors too (although more pricey than skirmishers so 2nd choice there).

    I also think that Saurus can be a budget alternative to temple guard so long as they're in a block of 30+. Of course, they're not S5 and are lower WS but they do get a 6++ and they're core...we do have some nice choices in special to free points up for.

    Skink chief in cohort isn't a bad idea although I'm not sure about its durability. After you've deployed the Quango Egg (which is really a 50/50 as to whether it's a combat changer or not, and even if it goes well then maybe not) then you're really on the equivalent of killing non-conbustible skaven slaves and, if we're honest, at T2 the chances are that the Quango egg isn't going to make up enough wounds to win the combat in the 1st turn, so we really are looking at skaven slave equivilent tar pit really...a gradual drain of points, tying something up perhaps, mmmmm.......
     
  9. Zwuppie
    Razordon

    Zwuppie Member

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    The chief and others aren't for those blocks of slaves! They are for support or for slaying monsters (infantry, no horde), then they will work fine! because you are almost often steadfast! practically they won't do that much wounds that they kill so many models that you lose your steadfast! And it is a quite cheap block which can hold monsters of many more points!
     
  10. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    I construct my core with Testors glue. Works awesome.

    I've got 60 saurus, and ~124 skinks.
    I have run them in a lot of formations, but I'm liking:
    Saurus:
    30+ Saurus with spears, usually with a character.
    50-60 Saurus as a mega block, must bring dispel scroll and cube of darkness to prevent pit/purple sun from wiping them out.
    10 saurus, cleans up support units pretty well, and is cheap.
    Less than 30 saurus have repeatedly gotten into trouble. I'll go small (10) accept that they are disposable, but units of 18,20,24 all failed, and cost me a lot of points in the process.


    Skinks:
    11 Skinks + krox as flanking support. Cheap and effective. You can count on it to throw down against anything valued around 150 points and come out the otherside. Fast enough to help you pick your matchups.
    30 skink cohorts with poison. It's a shoot, shoot, and smack, followed usually with a break and flee. But, the damage and speed they bring is pretty decent. At 240 (full command), they can multi-task as either a horde for maximum shooting, or 6 deep and a steadfast helper. Unlike skirmishers, the poison attacks in combat let them go toe to toe against most monsters.
    44 Skinks, 4 Krox; 6 wide, 10 deep. 470 points (full command). You've got to do 6 wounds to reduce kroxigor attacks. With so many skinks, they will be steadfast for awhile. While they won't do well against another 470 point unit, that isn't their job. Their job is to hit a 250-350 point unit, and blow through it, and then hit another.
    10 Skirmishers: Duh. Shoot stuff. I usually run 1 unit with blow pipes, and the rest with javs.

    I tried 32 skinks + 2 krox in a 4x10 (or 5x8 block). At the cost, too many enemy units were just better enough where they would grind through, or outright blow through them. So I shifted to larger or smaller.



    A lot of what's going to work for you is based on what you'll be seeing in your meta. For my Core, I want to be able to have a clear role. The bigger units beat non-death stars pretty effectively. The throw away units redirect death stars. This approach of beat it or block it has worked well for me.
    The block of 60 Saurus is the only thing I've run that I would call a death star. I went into high elves, and he literally had nothing that could take it on. It ran up the center, split his army in half, and allowed my chaff to crush half his army for a solid ~700 point victory.
     
  11. RipperDerek
    Kroxigor

    RipperDerek Active Member

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    I don't think this deployment is legal. If you take 4 krox, according to the spawn-kin rule, you must deploy them all in the second rank and then match the skinks to that width.
     
  12. Kharn The Betrayer
    Razordon

    Kharn The Betrayer New Member

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    Yes I believe with 4 krox the unit must be 10 wide at least
     
  13. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    Must be placed in the 2nd rank if their is room. If not, they are placed behind another krox, just like it says in the rule.
     
  14. Kharn The Betrayer
    Razordon

    Kharn The Betrayer New Member

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    If in a horde do 2 rows of krox attack or 1?
     
  15. RipperDerek
    Kroxigor

    RipperDerek Active Member

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    That is extremely unclear, unfortunately.

    Many people argue that the Krox "count" as ranks 2 and 3, so switching to horde formation allows rank 3 to get supporting attacks, but that's just the same group of Krox. Other people argue that's stupid, and that an "extra rank" gets to attack beyond whatever rank is currently attacking.
     
  16. Kharn The Betrayer
    Razordon

    Kharn The Betrayer New Member

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    They need to FAQ that soon, that is totally game changing differences in attacks. 12- 15 str 7 attacks extra can win a game!
     
  17. VampTeddy
    Terradon

    VampTeddy Active Member

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    I have recently bought more skinks and plan on going with a core looking like:

    25 Skink Cohorts. FC
    25 Skink Cohorts. FC
    10 Skink Skirmishers.
    10 Skink Skirmishers.
    10 Skink Skirmishers.


    Now at these amounts we're talking poison cohorts, if they're non poison i would probably just include another 5 models to both units, or add another skirmisher unit.

    Other core Units i've liked:

    39 Strong skink cohort w/ poison.

    and sadly, that's it.

    I have used saurus several times, and plan to try them again. But seemingly they do not work for me, i'd rather pay for something that works, especially whenit's cheaper.
     
  18. Kharn The Betrayer
    Razordon

    Kharn The Betrayer New Member

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    I think Saurus are better than skinks in combat because they can get things done without the aid of magic
     
  19. VampTeddy
    Terradon

    VampTeddy Active Member

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    I feel your sentiment works just as well in reverse.

    It has been said a thousand times on this forum that Saurus are dependent on magic to go the distance. Yeah they're fine and neat and stuff - but they fulfill the exact same role as Skinks, drying in droves, and Skinks have the numbers to tolerate it, or are cheap enough to be an economical loss, while losing a lesser amount of Saurus will cost more pts.

    I can get a Skink horde with FC at 40 models strong w/ poison , for the same price as i'd get 20 saurus and a unit of 10 cohorts and a mus. (or a bit more than 25 saurus with FC) now finding out which is going to survive longer shouldn't be hard.

    If i am going for un-buffed core, i'd dive for skinks anyways. If i am going to go for a core which can kill stuff and i am intent on buffing it, i'll use Saurus.
     
  20. Kharn The Betrayer
    Razordon

    Kharn The Betrayer New Member

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    Saurus are likely the most solid core in the game since the warriors of chaos nerf. Iron guts are better but can't think of any other core better than Saurus. I prefer to take skirmishers as my skinks
     

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