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AoS Ideas for a guard list

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Dr.Doom, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Dr.Doom
    Skink

    Dr.Doom Active Member

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    Hello, fellow Lustrians,

    I've been thinking of making a list of auto-hit guards whit +1 to wound and exploding 6s.

    If you take them in koatl´s claw upon charges you get +1 to hit from savagery incarnate and you can use a command point if you didn’t make a charge to activate controlled fury both apply for all hit rolls.

    Then you take an old one on foot or on carnosaurus for the command ability wrath of the seraphon that gives you +1 to hit, also applies for all the attacks.

    The next hero is the eternity warden that has the command ability prime guardian which gives Saurus guard units +1 to hit to all their attacks.

    So the poles usually hit on +3 now they have a +3 buff so now the auto hit and wound on a 3 and their bites usually hit on 5s now they hit on 2s.

    If you then continue to add Saurus sunblood he's command ability scent of weakness gives +1 to wound rules aginst one specific enemy unit.

    The last guy you add is a Scarveteran on cold one/carnosaurus for the saurian savagery for the exploding 6s.

    So poles hit in 1s, 6s explode and wound on 2s, bites hit on 2s, 6s explode they wound on 3s.

    This cost between 350 to 590 points and is quiet command point heavy but the command points can be fixed by taking kroak, you also get a spent point back on a 4+ thanks to koatl´s claw.

    You could have anything from 3 blocks of 20 and one of 5 to 2 blocks of 20 and one of 10, but you can only buff one at the time.

    What do you guys think?
     
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  2. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    You only need a +1 to hit, so you're going to hit on a 2+. Each nat roll of 1 is always a fail… for that you need a skink with the Hand of glory spell.

    Additional bonuses to "to hit" would only help the bite Attacks (which is still useful for koatl's claw)

    basically, with Koatl's claw you're going to hit on 2+ with the polearms and 4+ with jaws ven without support heroes.
    If you have the points, an Oldblood / warden would give a further +1 and the jaws will hit at 3+, which is enough.
    Hand of glory to reroll 1s.
    for other heroes… exploding 6s is good but also +1 to wound is, so you could pick a Sunblood.

    so , i'd say that 2 heroes are mandatory (a skink and a Saurus), a second saurus hero is highly recommended, and the third one just in case. In this order:
    skink caster
    ScarVet / Sunblood
    Oldblood
     
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  3. Dr.Doom
    Skink

    Dr.Doom Active Member

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    Yeah thank you, I didn’t think that 1s are natural misses, forgot it during my quarantine.

    But you can get all tre units down too 2s if you don’t wanna extra buff the bites and get the exploding 6s and +1 to wound.

    And thanks for hands of glory I've read it but not thought of it.
     
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  4. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Looks interesting, a saurus guard are basically better liberators, or on par with chaos warriors. You won’t be getting as many attacks as with a saurus knights or warriors list, but most of the attacks should hit. One thing to also consider is getting some objective grabbers, as guard suffer from the same issue as warriors where they aren’t particularly fast. Investing in a few units of skinks (probably with javelins, shields and daggers) would be a good fix. Other than that it looks solid, and would be cool to see on the field
     
  5. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    guard and chaos warriors are not on par lmao
     
  6. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    corection they are just liberators with smaller basses the numbers are almost identical
     
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  7. Shocksem
    Saurus

    Shocksem Active Member

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    And Liberators are... yeah...
     
  8. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    They do have better rend and more attacks tho, which does make up for a lot. Imho they aren’t great but with the right buffs they can be a decent choice
     
  9. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    and liberators have grand mauls which makes up for it guard do 1 ish more damage and don't reroll 1s to save. they are almost the same unit
    this is guard
    [​IMG]
    and this is liberators
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Asamu
    Temple Guard

    Asamu Well-Known Member

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    There's no way that this is accounting for the jaw attacks as well.
    Also, guard have the -1 damage taken in coalesced.

    https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/

    Go here and put in the weapon profiles for a unit of 5 guard vs a unit of 5 liberators... Guard do ~22%-40% more damage than liberators in a unit of 5 before saves (and it gets better for guard as saves get better because they get rend on the polearms); with the great weapon for the liberators on the unit leader, so it's the best case scenario for them, and that's with no buffs at all.
    Guard are a way stronger unit than liberators.

    With dual swords, liberators have a closer comparison, but are still behind.

    1 more damage is a lot when you're talking about a 100 point unit, especially with how many buffs can be stacked onto guard to increase their damage - +1 to hit, +1 to wound, exploding 6s, and re-rolls put coalesced guard at up to ~14 damage from a unit of 5 before saves on average.

    Coalesced guard are actually closer to Sequitors than liberators without buffs. Sequitors are probably a stronger unit in general, though in a direct fight when using re-rolls to hit, they match up slightly unfavorably with coalesced guard, and they're also on larger bases and 30% more points outside of a maxed unit. Buffed guard still put out up to ~twice as much damage as Sequitors on average.

    The only real problem for guard is that these ~100 point 2 wound units (unless easily buffed like Ardboys) tend to not be great, and they're totally overshadowed by Knights and warriors in terms of performance/cost, so while great to throw into a list with Kroak or a slann as bodyguards, they're not really something to build the army around. It can probably work and be decently competitive with the right list, but is certainly not the most competitive thing we can do. I could see a Koatl's Claw list running ~3x10 guard with Kroak or a regular Slann, 1-2 scar vet carnos, a sunblood, a skink hero or two, and salamanders.

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    - Constellation: Koatl's Claw
    Mortal Realm: Hysh
    Lord Kroak (320)
    - Spell: Stellar Tempest
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (210)
    - War Spear
    - Artefact: Eviscerating Blade

    Saurus Sunblood (130)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Dominant Predator

    Skink Starseer (140)
    10 x Saurus Guard (200)
    10 x Saurus Guard (200)
    10 x Saurus Guard (200)
    12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)
    12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)

    Bound Geminids (70)
    Balewind Vortex (40)

    Total: 1990 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 137

    Something like this could be pretty reasonable, and would perform just fine against almost anything. The Starseer could be replaced with 2 priests for the salamanders, an astrolith bearer for kroak, or just more guard or something and another endless spell.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  11. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    this is entirely unbuffed against a 4+ save and yes it does account for the 5 bight attacks guard only have 16 attacks and the bights go of on 5s and 4s,
    they do buff better but our entire army does im only comparing base warscrolls
     
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  12. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Here is what I came up with for a Saurus Guard List:

    Koatl's Claw Saurus Guard and Firelance

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    - Constellation: Koatl's Claw
    - Mortal Realm: Hysh


    Leaders:
    Saurus Sunblood
    (130)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Dominate Predator
    - Artefact: Eviscerating Blade

    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (110)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
    - Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
    Lord Kroak (320)
    Skink Starseer (140)
    - Spell: Celestial Harmony
    Skink Starpriest (120)
    - Spell: Hand of Glory

    Battleline:
    20 x Saurus Guard (400)
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (100)
    - Lances

    Units:
    6 x Salamander Hunting Pack (160)

    Battalions:
    Firelance Temple-host
    (160)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 129

    I decided that the Oldblood was a redundant hero. Koatl's Claw's faction trait and command ability already give Saurus Guard +1 to hit.

    While under buffs the Saurus Gaurd will Hit on 2's (unmod 6's deal 2 hits) re-rolling 1's, Wound on 2's (unmod 6's deal 1 MW in addition), Rend -1, & 1 Damage. They will have a 3+ Save with a 6+ Save after Save. They can also charge 3d6" re-rollable.

    Oh, and Scaly Skin...
     
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  13. Fenix
    Skink

    Fenix Member

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    I posted this list in the thread about guard further down.

    ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Seraphon) [1,970pts] ++
    + Leader +
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer [140pts]
    Skink Starpriest [120pts]
    Slann Starmaster [260pts]
    + Behemoth +
    Bastiladon [220pts]:
    Solar Engine
    + Battleline +
    Saurus Guard [300pts]:
    3x 5 Saurus Guards, Saurus Guard Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer
    + Battalion +
    Firelance Temple-Host [870pts]

    . Saurus Knights: 5 Saurus Knights, Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer
    . Saurus Knights: Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer
    . . 2x 5 Saurus Knights: 2x Powerful Jaws, 2x Snapping Jaws
    . Saurus Knights: Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer
    . . 2x 5 Saurus Knights: 2x Powerful Jaws, 2x Snapping Jaws
    . Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur: [Koatl's Claw] Dominant Predator, Celestite Warspear, Eviscerating Blade, General
    + Allegiance +
    Allegiance

    . Allegiance: Seraphon
    . . Coalesced: Koatl's Claw
    + Game Options +
    Game Type:
    2000 Points - Battlehost
    + Malign Sorcery +
    Bound Endless Spell: Emerald Lifeswarm [60pts]
    ++ Total: [1,970pts] ++

    Created with BattleScribe


    The idea is to use the guard and basti as an anvil to the firelance hammer.
     
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