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AoS Let's talk Skirmish 2.0

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by zubrin, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    In White Dwarf January 2019, they created new skirmish rule. February 2019 offers a campaign to play through as well. A good friend and I like to play often with various rules and we will likely start a Skirmish campaign of my Seraphon versus his Greenskinz (might be sad times if they are really discontinued).

    The new point scheme is basically unit cost divided by minimum troop size and they recommend starting at 250 points (but 150 for campaign). There is some small, additional nuance/cost with unit weapons, but for the most part, assume the above rule. Also, you must have a minimum of three models and one of those must be a hero unit. As order, we get to reroll failed battleshock tests, but this isn't a huge bonus for Seraphon. We still can't summon.

    The campaign in the Feb 2019 suggests 150 renown to start. So, what would you look at for 150 points? Do you have ideas for a 250 point army as well? I am interested in both lists and am happy to use a thread to start theorycrafting some ideas.

    Edit: Also, how does the magic of Chamon work? There is a d3 roll for some reason, but can any wizard use any spell there?
     
  2. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    Going through the points now, we seem limited in what we can start with for 150 points.

    My initial thoughts would be:

    Skink priest (priestly trappings), indomitable will, blessed amulet (80)

    or

    Skink starpriest, ambitituos fighter (for ranged attacks mostly), blessed amulet (80)

    Troops:
    Razordon (40)
    Skink Handler (13)
    Skinks x2 (12)

    or

    Terradon (40)
    Saurus Knight (18)
    Skinks x2 (12)

    or

    Razordon (40)
    Saurus Knight (18)
    Skinks x2 (12)

    I think I like:

    Skink Priest (80)
    Razordon (40)
    Saurus Knight (18)
    Skinks x2 (12)
     
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  3. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    I'd avoid the skinks, a single skink simply isn't going to achieve anything with it's terrible statline. And on its own it also loses the board control that a group of em gives so I wouldn't be surprised if it'd be utterly useless in skirmish.

    I'd also avoid the handler for the most part. It is very expensive for what it does in a skirmish.

    Knights do seem a lot better, but with how much points are already going into heroes they seem rather expensive as well.

    To be honest I think we might not fare very well in skirmish. Normally our heroes depend on synergy, big dinosaurs and large hordes.
    But since skirmish means less models we can't get our synergy going for our heroes, our big dino's are too expensive & fielding a horde is just flat out impossible. And that's ignoring summoning is just flat out banned. We kinda lose everything that makes us good. And lastly we have very few Multi-wound models, so we won't really have anything sturdy, especially at only 150 points (at least SCE can count on everything taking more than 1 blow..)

    You could try the following:

    Skink priest, priestly trappings (80)
    Razordon (40)
    3 saurus guard (18) (with one being a champion? Goes 2 points over budget though)

    There should be fewer sources of mortal wounds, plus they can only kill 1 guard at a time now. So guards might actually function for once. And the re-rolls from priestly trappings should help as well.


    Do tell how it goes. I'm curious if the new skirmish mode works well or not.
     
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  4. Just A Skink
    Cold One

    Just A Skink Active Member

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    I recently played a 250 pt. skirmish game. I had trouble getting skinks to do much, but that's probably due more to my poor play. I had two heroes, a starpriest and oldblood. The oldblood actually concerned my nighthaunt opponent, and he actually did kill several models. So, in thinking about that game a bit, saurus may not be as bad in skirmish.

    What about:
    80 - Skink priest, priestly trappings or feather cloak
    54 - Saurus knight x 3
    134 TOTAL (room for alpha, items, maybe 1 saurus warrior or 2 skinks, etc.)
    *Good mobility for all units, especially with feather cloak, and good support from celestial rites.

    80 - Skink priest, priestly trappings or feather cloak
    60 - Saurus warriors x 6
    140 TOTAL (room for alpha, items, 1 more saurus, etc.)
    *A little vanilla, but several units with good support from celestial rites.

    100 - Scar veteran on cold one
    36 - Saurus knight x 2
    136 TOTAL (room for alpha, item, maybe 1 saurus or 2 skinks, etc.)
    *Not quite as versatile as the first force, but still good movement and nice synergy with the cold ones. The scar vet. is the cheapest saurus hero, and can potentially hit A LOT.

    120 - Saurus Sunblood
    20 - Saurus warriors x 2
    140 TOTAL (room for alpha, item, maybe 1 extra saurus, etc.)
    *Obviously, the sunblood is the only real strength in this force, but could be a beast vs. smaller "hero" skirmish forces like SCE.
     
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  5. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    One thing to note myself the campaign: you can bank points to spend later. We will get 6-10 points each game and it ends on game 6.
     
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  6. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    This is probably the best one we have.

    To be honest, we just need stuff to be flat out cheaper to make up for all that we lose in a skirmish. Or at least some mechanic that makes up for the lost horde bonusses and lack of synergies due to a general lack of models. Our heroes aren't too bad individually and can definitly rip apart some opponents, but we can't exactly count on 1 sunblood taking out their entire warband.

    On a sidenote, what exactly is the rule for special equipment that'd give the entire unit a bonus (e.g. our saurus's instruments). Do they now apply only to the 1 model carrying it? Or do they apply to all models of that type?
     
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  7. MackiMac
    Saurus

    MackiMac Member

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    If i remember correctly it will effect models in a bubble around the bearer, like 6” or something along those lines (dont know the exact nummer).
     
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  8. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    There are two parts:

    1) Any upgrades, including weapons, standards, and instruments, cost 5 more points. If you wish your unit to be a champion, that costs 5 more as well.

    2) They have to be in the same warscroll and they have to be in 6" to get the unit effect.
     
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  9. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    We have our first two games of the campaign lined up for Monday. I expect to go priest + 3 Knights as I am easily convinced by the two people who promoted it here. Probably paying the 5 extra points for an alpha is a good idea to get one more attack. I have to see what conditions give you points; a 6 point loss would leave me short for a 4th knight in game 2; so if a 6 point result is likely then I will skip the alpha and buy it for game 2 if I make the points.

    My priest and my knights are mostly unpainted, so I have a new focus for the week.
     
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  10. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    Last minute theorycrafting before our game tomorrow and I decided to go Scar vet on Cold one + 2 Knights. The synergy, extra wounds, and better attack seemed like a better gamble than the priest. I am still running indomitable will, but that might be a waste if my orc friend is not running a shaman. We shall see!
     
  11. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    Battle report for the Cavalry-only Seraphon is now up.
     
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  12. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Kroxigor

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    My co-worker and friend plan to start a Skirmish Campaign soon to run during lunch breaks. His main army is Skaven and I'm looking at possible configs to match up against him. I really like the synergies that ScarVet and Knights bring, but I'm going to do some more theory crafting and get feedback.
     
  13. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Kroxigor

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see anyone answer this. It is my understanding, based on the first iteration of the Skirmish rules, if your General is a WIZARD, you can choose to roll D3 to gain one of the three Magic Rewards, instead of on of the D6 Rewards.
     
  14. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Kroxigor

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    Looks like my opponent and I have agreed on a starting Renown of 250. With that in mind, here's my first attempt at a Skirmish list:

    Allegiance: Order
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - General
    - Trait: Ambitious Fighter
    - Artefact: Armourbane (Skirmish Artefact)
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    1 x Saurus Knights (18)
    - Lances
    - 1 Champion or Upgrades
    1 x Razordons (40)

    Total: 243 / 250
    Wounds: 16

    Obviously, the ScarVet would be the All-Star here. I'd likely keep Serpents Staff on him and regularly attempt Summon Starlight on him, except in rare occasions where it might be better applied elsewhere. The Champion Knight will get three attacks and hopefully a luck Burning Lance. I'll likely stick to the same strategy @zubrin used and just keep buying Knights with Renown.
     
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  15. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    I am not sure how good the razordon is. Can you roll the number of hits and then allocate them afterward?

    The command ability for the Cold one is good enough that going heavy on knights was worth it.
     
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  16. Just A Skink
    Cold One

    Just A Skink Active Member

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    I think this is a fine looking warband. Keep in mind, at 250pts. you could easily face some difficult armies. Stormcast, for example, can dish out LOTS of mortal wounds. No way around it, just pointing out what I've faced.

    It depends on what army (or armies) you'll face in your skirmish matches, but I'd also consider a skink priest over a starpriest due to celestial rites. Of course, with a starpriest you have casting and unbinding.

    The razordon is good, but expensive. You can get two more knights for the same price, giving you a scar-vet, priest/starpriest, and 3 knights (with champion & standard). A nice starting force with solid synergy.

    Or you could field a scar-vet on cold one and 8 knights (one as a champion).
     
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  17. zubrin
    Saurus

    zubrin Member

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    I'm glad I refreshed before finishing my post as this says what I was going to suggest theorycrafting. I think dropping the razordon is right. A knight army might be great.

    When originally building a list, I think I went Skink priest over star priest because celestial rights is good. Skink priest can use indomitable will to make up for the unbinding, but make sure you keep it next to other units.I prefer Priestly trappings over Cloak since each model is a unit in skirmish rules.
     
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  18. Canas
    Skink Priest

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    I think you might be a tad light on models. OTherwise could be fine.

    you choose a target then roll a dice to see how many shots you take then the regular to hit and to wound rolls.

    As for starpriest vs priest, since he's only fielding 3 models total the starpriests mystic shield & summon starlight provide comparable defensive power while also potentially bringing mortal wounds & his venom. With this small a warband the starpriest is better.
     
  19. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Kroxigor

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    I really appreciate the feedback. The Razordon really seems like it could do work in Skirmish, but it is pricey and very unstable attack profile. I agree with @Canas regarding the Starpriest. So, here's the next list base on feedback:

    Allegiance: Order
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - General
    - Trait: Ambitious Fighter
    - Artefact: Armourbane (Skirmish Artefact)
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    1 x Saurus Knights (18)
    - Lances
    - Champion (5)
    1 x Saurus Knights (18)
    - Lances
    1 x Saurus Knights (18)
    - Lances

    Total: 239 / 250
    Wounds: 17

    The other advantage of this is it has the potential of gaining enough Renown to get a 4th Knight in the 2nd game.
     
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  20. Wilhelm Stürmer
    Kroxigor

    Wilhelm Stürmer Well-Known Member

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    @Just A Skink Thanks for the advice. I'd likely be facing Skaven, though my appointment does have FEC and Beasts, as well. Outside of that, I'm thinking of playing my 8 year old in Skirmish as well, and she'll likely be fielding SEC. But that's down the road, as she only has a few easy to assemble models.
     
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