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Discussion Lizardmen History Timeline

Discussion in 'Fluff and Stories' started by Warden, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. Warden
    Skar-Veteran

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    DATE, Imperial Calendar (Long Count. Tzokin. Haab’): Description of events

    Underlined are dates that are specifically pulled directly from source material, including the Lizardmen 6th, 7th, and 8th edition army books, as well as some dates from the 8th edition Daemon army book and the 8th edition Warhammer Rulebook.

    Other dates are educated guesswork based on the material (for instance, 400 year siege of Itza ends -4450 IC but no start date is given, and all the dates for the first half of Lizardmen history are deliberately ambiguous), but for 95% percent of cases these dates are all from canon sources.


    Time of the Old Ones


    -15000 (0.0.0.0.0.0. 4 Ajaw. 8 K’umk’u): Old Ones arrive, first spawnings of Slann, saurus, skinks, and kroxigors

    -10000 (0.8.0.0.0.0. 9 Ajaw. 3 Sip): Temple City of Itza founded

    Xlanhuapec founded

    Tlaxtlan founded

    Second generation of Slann; orbit moved closer to the sun

    Third generation of Slann

    Tlax founded

    Quetza founded

    Zlatlan founded

    Fourth Generation of Slann; polar warp gates greated, remaining cities founded throughout the rest of the B'ak'tun

    Continents split, World Pond created; Extermination Wars

    Fifth Generation of Slann

    Elves, Dwarfs, and Humans created during this B'ak'tun



    Great Catastrophe and the Daemon Wars


    -5600 (1.0.0.0.0.0. 10 Ajaw. 13 Yaxk’in): Great Catastrophe, Polar Gates collapse, Old Ones disappear

    Daemonic attacks begin, magic erupts over geomantic network

    Lizardmen armies and magic hold them at bay

    Stalemate on all fronts, lizardmen and daemonic forces constantly do battle

    Tide of the Winds of Magic waxes, magical defenses unable to hold back the daemonic hordes that spill over the globe. Slann withdraw all Lizardmen armies to defend the temple cities

    All of Lustria besieged by daemonic forces

    Protection of Lustria cast, turning the jungles of Lustria into a giant death trap

    -5000 (1.0.18.2.1.9. 8 Muluk. 17 Ch’en): Xahutec falls when the magical defenses are breached by a daemonic rift; all Slann and lizardmen of that city are slaughtered

    Huatl falls to the daemonic hordes

    Tlanxla falls to the daemonic hordes

    Xhotl falls, not before a warning is sent to other temple cities warning of the threat to their magical barriers

    Contact is lost with the Southlands due to the gaps in the geomantic web

    Chiccotta, First Generation Slann of Zlatan, sacrifices himself to rid the Southlands of all daemonic incursions

    Plague overcomes defenders at Chaqua

    Quezotec falls to a sonic barrage, billions of lizardmen slaughtered

    Zarmunda dragged into the sea by tentacles

    -4850 (1.1.5.13.16.16. 10 Kib’. 14 Sek): the way is clear to the Lizardmen capitol city; beginning of the Siege of Itza

    -4450 (1.2.6.0.7.8. 1 Lamat. 1 Sotz’) Itza saved by Lord Kroak's spirit; war continues across the continent

    -4419 (1.2.7.10.16.6. 7 Kimi’. 9 Sek): Great Vortex, the great spell cast by the High Elf Mages and aided by the Slann ends daemon incursion



    Age of Isolation

    -4119 (1.3.2.15.15.1. 10 Imix.4 Wayeb’): High Elf Explorers penetrate Lustria, arrive at Pahuax during conjugation of the Two Moons

    -3894 (1.3.14.4.6.7. 12 Manik’. 0 Mol): Chupayotl slips into the sea; rumors persist of an underwater race that has taken up residence in the ruins

    -2423 (1.7.8.16.5.13. 10 Ben. 11 K’ayab’): Curse of Xahutec discovered: daemonic rift

    -2000 (1.8.10.5.9.16. 2 Kib’. 14 Sek): Ancient records of Zlatlan refer to strife with lost Dwarf Stronghold Karak Zorn

    -1500 (1.9.15.13.0.0. 10 Ajaw. 18 K’ank’in): Slann make a minor correction to the world's plates in accordance with the Great plan, causing the earthquakes that shake the World's Edge Mountains and cause the downfall of the Dwarf Empire



    Wars of the Rat- Age of Sotek


    -1399 (1.10.0.15.11.9. 13 Muluk. 2 Wayeb’): Clan Pestilens in Lustria, beginning of the War of the Rat

    -951 (1.11.3.9.15.10. 7 Ok. 3 Wayeb’):Green Mist- Skaven of Clan Pestilens take the ruins of Conqueso under cover of poisonous vapor

    -215 (1.13.0.16.17.13. 13 Ben. 1 Kayab’): First Dark Elf raid penetrates Lustrian jungles to steal sacred artifacts

    -30 (1.13.10.4.0.0. 13 Ajaw. 3 Yaxk’in): Twin Tailed Comet arrives in the sky, prophecy of the Coming of Sotek

    1 (1.13.11.15.5.13. 2 Ben. 1 Sek): Prophecy of Sotek, fall of Chaqua

    100 (1.13.16.16.0.0. 5 Ajaw. 13 Yaxk’in): Great Sacrifices of the Rats to the Serpents; Tehenhuain drives skaven out of Lustria; ruins of Quezta filled with snakes; war in Southlands



    Age of Strife


    271 (1.13.16.16.0.0. 5 Ajaw. 13 Yaxk’in): Zenith of Xla-Tepec; more alignments are made, earthquakes in Araby and Cathay

    315 (1.14.7.14.6. 10 Ak’bal. 1 K’ayab’): Lord Tepec-Inzi and Gor-Rok lead army to Naggaroth to reclaim Star Stela

    513 (1.14.17.14.15.5. 3 Chickchan. 13 Kej): Lord Zltep of Tlaxtlan dies; utters only the beginning of the prophecy known as the Incantation of Xetlipocutzl; remains incomplete

    703 (1.15.7.7.15.4. 10 K’an. 2 Wayab’): The Changeling orchestrates an undead attack on Tlanxla, stealing artefacts from both sides

    876 (1.15.16.3.13.3. 6 Ak’bal. 11 Ch’en): Luthor Harkon creates fleet of undead pirates on Vampire Coast

    888 (1.15.16.16.2.17. 8 Kab’an. 5 K’ank’in): Norse explorer Losteriksson founds Skeggi

    901 (1.15.17.9.0.0. 3 Ajaw. 3 Mol). Chaos Moon swallows Xaki Star, slann from Xlanhuapec refound Huatl

    912 (1.15.18.0.6.9. 10 Muluk. 17 Sak): Slann Lord Xhul dies due to daemon incursion at Tlencan

    930 (1.15.18.18.3.19. 5 Kawak. 17 Sotz’): Undead hordes of Luthor Harkon halted by Lord Xltep

    954 (1.16.0.2.15.3. 3 Ak’bal. 1 Yax): Allac Fellclaw leads first full-scale Chaos invasion of Lustria since Great Catastrophe; no plaques are stolen but survivors escape over the sea with much gold

    1004 (1.16.2.12.15.7. 4 Muluk. 2 Pax): Lord Mazdamundi thwarts Dark Elf Invasion by raising a mountain range- the Grey Guardians

    1150 (1.16.10.1.1.2. 5 Ik’. 0 Pop): Arabian merchants reach Zlatan; Ibn Jellaba accompanies Lizardmen on raid of land of Dead to recover mummified Slann

    1237 (1.16.14.9.4.16. 13 Kib’. 4 Wayeb’): Chaos Rift at Xahutec opens with daemon horde; Kroq-Gar battles daemons, Slann close the breach

    1323 (1.16.18.16.13.9. 7 Muluk. 2 Xul): Chieftain Kjell Red-Fist travels to Lustria to find Fount of Youth; Battle of the Obsidian Tower at the River Qurveza



    New World of Gold

    1492 (1.17.7.8.12.0. 12 Ajaw. 8 K’ayab’): Marco Columbo sails to Lustria, arrives on 15th day after zenith of the Itchli Star; predicted by the Prophecy of Zhocl-Tlapoc.

    1493 (1.17.7.9.6.12. 10 Eb’. 15 Yax): Dark Elf raiding force attempting to sack Tlax is defeated by Slann Xltoc, witnessed by Marco Columbo

    1690 (1.17.17.9.2.13. 2 Ben. 11 Sak): Emperor Wu of Cathay sends fleet to conquer the Southlands, ends in failure

    1721 (1.17.19.1.1.1. 11 Imix. 19 Pop): Dark Elf raid uses Black Way to attack Xlanhuapec, intruders are slaughtered

    1801 (1.18.3.1.15.18.1 Etz’nab. 1 Muwan): Port Reaver founded by Lucciano Soprania, ousted pirate prince of Sartosa

    1809 (1.18.3.10.0.0. 11 Ajaw. 3 Muwan): Pahuax is rebuilt, Egg of Quango found in excavation and given to Mazdamundi

    1847 (1.18.5.8.8.17. 10 Kab’an. 10 K’ank’in): Bretonnian Fleet invades Lustria, an event also known as the Folly of Prince Rodrik, an expedition financed by his father Duke Tudual du L'Anguille which ends with the Prince and all his fellow knights slaughtered at the hands of the Lizardmen.

    1910 (1.18.8.12.12.9. 8 Muluk. 2 Wo): Lord Nanahua leads expedition to Chaqua in search of lost relics; catches skaven plaque and goes into exile, only emerges to counter Skaven incursions into Lustria

    1944 (1.18.10.7.0.0. 9 Ajaw. 8 K’ayab’): Mazdamundi razes Cadavo for the third time; fulfills Prophecy of Querchi (he who rides the Horned Beast)

    1977 (1.18.12.1.0.1. 4 Imix. 19 Mol): Skink Priest enacting Ritual of Listening at the Sentinels of Xeti believes he hears the voice of the Old Ones; Slann debate and eventually denounce the Priest's claim

    2000 (1.18.13.3.15.16. 10 Kib’. 4 Wayeb’): Mordheim destroyed by warpstone comet

    2064 (1.18.16.8.17.5. 13 Chickchan. 8 Sotz’): Swamp Town founded by gamblers fleeing debts at Port Reaver

    2100 (1.18.18.5.1.4. 12 K’an. 12 Muwan): Skink Priests conflict over the mummified remains of Lord Xhilipepa escalates into armed conflict over interpretations of mosquitoes circling his head

    2187 (1.19.2.13.4.10. 12 Ok. 3 Muwan): Lord Melcin returns to Imperial Court after a year in Lustria; his pygmy companion escapes, eats a courtier, and hides out in the Moot

    2223 (1.19.4.10.10.0. 13 Ajaw. 8 Sak): Year of the Jade Star Sea, Slaa'Ulaan Daemon Prince returns to Lustria, Battle of Xuhua Lake, Slann Huinitenuchli of Pahuax grievously wounded



    Age of Awakening


    2304 (1.19.8.12.1.17. 3 Kab’an. 0 Pop): Following reading of Itzl Star, Slann bolster power of the Great Warding, aiding Magnus the Pious in the Great War against Chaos

    2315 (1.19.9.3.11.4. 3 K’an. 0 Pop): Pirate King Draven hired to protect Swamp Town from Port Reaver. Winds up sacking Swamp Town instead

    2349 (1.19.10.17.14.9.10 Muluk. 7 Wo): Lizardmen Army marches across Culchan Plains to Citadel of Dusk to help the High Elves defeat Dark Elf Army

    2355 (1.19.11.3.14.13. 3 Ben. 1 Pop): Battle of Cholulec; disgraced Dwarf Engineer Sven Hasslfriesian sets out in steam-ship to Tarantula Coast, many sea battles, clash with Lizardmen over the ruins

    2418 (1.19.14.7.8.9. 13 Muluk. 7 Muwan): Slann Tecciztec of Tlaxtlan enacts sorcerous ritual aimed at pushing the Chaos Moon out of orbit; fails, causing chunks to split and cause great devastation upon the lands of Men across the World Pond.

    2489 (1.19.18.0.0.0. 7 Ajaw. 18 Xul): Pestilens infests Quetza; Tetto'eko calls down comet to obliterate the nest

    2497 (1.19.18.8.8.8. 13 Lamat. 6 Mak): Slann lend power to High Elves' Great Vortex on Ulthuan

    2512 (1.19.19.3.0.0. 6 Ajaw. 3 Pop): Battle of Umbral Tide; Lizardmen led by Kroq-Gar board the Dark Elf Black Ark, beaching the ship and leaving it abandoned on the shores of Lustria

    2517 (1.19.19.8.5.15. 10 Men. 13 Sek): Oxyotl reappears in Lustria; at his appearance new spawnings of chameleon skinks appear from ruined city of Pahuax; had not happened since the first fall of the city



    The End Times


    2519 (1.19.19.10.11.2. 5 Ik’. 10 Yax): Eternal Battle- rift of Xahutec opens, legions of saurus die, Slann unable to close it, Twin Tailed Comet appears

    2520 (1.19.19.11.1.1. 8 Imix. 9 K’umk’u): Albion is threatened, Mazdamundi launches invasion lead by Kroq-Gar

    (1.19.19.11.5.19. 2 Kawak. 2 Sek): Lost Plaques recovered from the Turtle Isles by Ten-Zlati, Oracle of Kroak

    2521 (1.19.19.12.10.12. 13 Eb’. 10 Ch’en): Albion saved, mists restored; war results in the climate of the island being changed to be a jungle, and the city of Konquata (Place of Resistance) is formed

    2522 (1.19.19.13.11.4.8 K’an. 17 Ch’en): Mazamundi and Kroq-Gar return to Hexoatl to break Vashnaar the Tormentor's siege

    2528 (1.19.19.19.17.19. 2 Kawak. 2 Muwan): Skaven prepare plans to blow up the moon

    (2.0.0.0.0.0. 3 Ajaw. 3 Muwan): Warhammer World Ends- Chaos Moon Erupts

    (2.0.0.0.0.1. 4 Imix. 4 Muwan): Lizardmen leave the Old World in temple-ships (exodus engines)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
  2. Warden
    Skar-Veteran

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Notes on Lizardmen Calendar

    The Lizardmen Calendar is the oldest calendrical system in the Warhammer World, predating the creation of the Elves by least seven hundred years and Imperial Calendar by over ten thousand years.

    The Lizardment Calendar consists of several different cycles of varying lengths, including the primary cycles known as the Tzolkin, the Haab’, and the Long Count. Many other cycles exist, such as the many lunar cycles for both the True Moon and the Chaos Moon, as well as a myriad of cycles depicting the holy days according to each of the Old Ones.


    Tzolk’in (or Tzolkin)- is a 260-day count calendar, known as the Sacred Round. The Tzolk’in combines twenty day names with thirteen day numbers, producing 260 unique days (20 x 13). Each day is numbered from 1 to 13, then starting over again at one. Each day of the Tzolk’in was considered holy, with a specific patron Old One recognized on each day of the cycle.

    Tzolk'in Glyphs:
    tzolkin.jpg

    Haab’- 365-day vague solar year. The Haab’ is made up of 18 months, plus a five-day Uayeb period (also known as the Wayeb’, from the original Saurian it translates to “nameless days” in common speech).

    Quote about the Uayeb:

    “"During Uayeb, portals between the mortal realm and the Underworld dissolved. No boundaries prevent the ill-intending entities of the Other World from causing disasters” –skink priest Q’uq’umatz, Chief Recorder of the Long Count

    Each day of the Haab’ has its own glyph identified by a number in groups of 20 (except for the Uayeb that had 4). The numbers would go from 0 to 19, with the 0 day being known as the “seat” of the preceding month.

    Haab' Glyphs:
    Haab.jpg

    Together the Tzolk’in and the Haab’ calendars would be combined to form a synchronized cycle lasting for 52 Haab’ years, known as the ceremonial Calendar Round. A completion of a Calendar Round cycle (the repeat of the Calendar Round pairing of 4 Ajaw, 8 K’umk’u) was a date of great importance in the ceremonial cycle, for it celebrated the date of creation itself, the very day the Old Ones arrived in the world, bringing the Lizardmen ancestors up out of the swamps and jungles and created spawnings of Slann, saurus, skinks, and kroxigors.

    Calendar Round:
    Long Count.gif

    The Long Count is used to measure much longer periods of time, starting with the arrival of the Old Ones in the Warhammer world and the creating of the first spawning of Lizaredmen (approximately -15000in the Imperial calendar, 0.0.0.0.0.0. 4 Ajaw. 8 K’umk’u in the Lizardmen calendar). The Long Count is written using a positional notation system, which each number representing a specific date.

    Long Count units of measure:

    K’in- 1 day

    Winal- 20 days

    Tun- 360 days- about one year (0.98 years)

    K’atun- 7200 days- almost 20 years (19.726 years)

    B’ak’tun- 144,000 days- almost 395 years/4 centuries (394.521 years)

    Piktun- 2,880,000 days- almost 8 millennia, 8 thousand years of history (7890.41 years)

    Long Count Glyphs:
    ArticleFigure-LongCountGlyphs.png


    Since the Lizardmen numeral system was vigesimal (a base 20 instead of a decimal base 10), each number slot can be filled by any number from zero to 20. The exception to this rule is the Winal slot, which only has a maximum place value of 18; this ultimately ensures the Tun slot will result in a period of 360 days (18 x 20, closer to a year) instead of 400 days (20 x 20).

    mayan number system.png

    As you may have noticed, the real-world pre-Columbian Mayan calendar is the basis for the Lizardmen calendar.

    Mayan Calendar

    Tzolk’in (or Tzolkin)- 260-day count, known as the Maya Sacred Round. The Aztec equivalent would be the Tonalpohualli in the Nahuatl language.

    Haab’- 365-day vague solar year. The Haab’ is made up of 18 months, plus a five-day Uayeb period (the “nameless days”).

    “"During Uayeb, portals between the mortal realm and the Underworld dissolved. No boundaries prevented the ill-intending deities from causing disasters” –Foster (2002)

    The Haab’ was exactly 365 days, but is considered a “vague year” because it doesn’t take into account the actual solar/tropical year, which means the calendar falls out of step with the solar year by a quarter day each year (same reason why in our modern-day calendar we have a leap year).

    The combined Tzolk’in and Haab’ were united in the Calendar Round ceremonial cycle. A single Calendar Round cycle could be expected to complete at least once during a normal human lifetime.


    The Long Count is used to measure longer periods of time, in order to determine when one event occurs in relations to others in history. The Long Count started at a mythological starting point in the Mayan Calendar (11 August 3114 BC in the Gregorian calendar, 0.0.0.0.0.0. 4 Ajaw. 8 K’umk’u in the Mayan calendar).


    Here is an example Long Count date, using today as a reference (01 February 2017 CE, Gregorian calendar), and calculated using this reference link:

    13 Bak’tun, 0 K’atun, 4 Tun, 3 Winal, 3 K’in, 12 Ak'bal, 6 Pax

    Long Count: 13.0.4.3.3

    Calendar Round: 12 Ak'bal, 6 Pax


    Tomorrow would be: 02 February 2017

    13 Bak’tun, 0 K’atun, 4 Tun, 3 Winal, 4 K’in, 13 K'an, 7 Pax

    Long Count: 13.0.4.3.4

    Calendar Round: 13 K'an, 7 Pax


    And so on. For those of you who are curious, here is what the date looked like a few years ago when lots of people thought the world was going to end because the Mayan Calendar predicted it:


    20 December 2012

    12 Bak’tun, 19 K’atun, 19 Tun, 17 Winal, 19 K’in, 3 Kawak, 2 K’ank’in

    Long Count: 12.19.19.17.19

    Calendar Round: 3 Kawak, 2 K’ank’in


    21 December 2012

    13 Bak’tun, 0 K’atun, 0 Tun, 0 Winal, 0 K’in, 4 Ajaw, 3 K’ank’in

    Long Count: 13.0.0.0.0

    Calendar Round: 4 Ajaw, 3 K’ank’in


    Pretty big deal, since the Bak’tun doesn’t change very often. Nothing to do with the end of the world, or even a phase of creation really. Just a couple numbers resetting themselves back to zero after four centuries. The last time this happened was the date switch from 11.19.19.17.19 on 17 September, 1618 to 12.0.0.0.0 on 18 September, 1618, almost 400 years prior to 2012. Wonder if they had an apocalypse scare that year too…

    Mayans also had other calendars, including one for the phases of the moon. They also had at least two more, one dedicated to the Nine Lords of the Night (also had to do with the moon) and an 819-day count calendar talked about in a few inscriptions.
    For those of you who are curious or want to make your own long count dates.

    How Lizardmen Long Count Dates were/are made:

    To create the Lizardmen Calendar dates I used the link provided above, with some major changes. The Mayans never used the Piktun in anything but recordings of future dates, simply because their history started at 3114 BC, the calendar hasn’t reached that level of measurement yet!

    The Warhammer universe meanwhile covers well over 15,000 years of history even before we get to the “modern” Imperial Calendar, which now ends in 2528 IC due to the End Times… a span of history that requires the use of the Piktun level of measurement (six Long Count digits).

    In order to use the Calendar link (or another Mayan calendar converter), I had to adjust the start date of the real-world calendar (-3114) to mirror the start of the warhammer calendar (-15,000) using the following formula:

    (Imperial Calendar Year) + 11886 – 1757 = (Lizardmen/Mayan Calendar Year to put into converter)

    So, using an example date:

    1492 (year Marco Columbo discovers Lustria) + 11886 – 1757 = (11621)

    Just feed that number you come up with into the calculator, add a specific (or random) month/day and it will give you the Long Count Date (10/7/11621 being = 1.17.7.8.13.0. 12 Ajaw. 8 K’ayab’).

    I hope that wasn’t too complicated. I took a while to figure out this system. Some of the dates that I provided might be off actually, simply because it took me a bit to figure out the difference between the Julian and Gregorian Calendar, and this calendar converter does both. If anyone spots any dates that are off please let me know, I will fix them.


    The only dates that this system deliberately do NOT work for are some key dates prior to -5000 IC. That is because I lined up some of the most crucial events in the Warhammer World timeline with the change of the Piktun dates, listed below:

    -15000 (0.0.0.0.0.0. 4 Ajaw. 8 K’umk’u): Old Ones arrive, first spawnings of Slann, saurus, skinks, and kroxigors

    -5600 (1.0.0.0.0.0. 10 Ajaw. 13 Yaxk’in): Great Catastrophe, Polar Gates collapse, Old Ones disappear

    2528 (2.0.0.0.0.0. 3 Ajaw. 3 Muwan): Warhammer World Ends- Chaos Moon Erupts


    In order to get these dates to line up so beautifully, I had to adjust the Imperial Calendar years of the Old Ones’ arrival to -13243 IC, and the Great Catastrophe to -5357. My justifications for this decision on my part were twofold:

    1. The Imperial Calendar Maker could only estimate the Beginning of the World and other events that happened thousands of years ago; kind of like how modern day scientists estimate the extinction of the dinosaurs to 65 million years ago. The date is approximate; no Imperial Citizens were there, and no one except the Lizardmen could possibly know when it ACTUALLY happened. So oops, the Imperial Calendar makers were off by a few thousand years, and they don’t even know it.


    2. It lines up pretty neatly with the Warhammer World being killed off in the “modern day” timeline. Almost if the Lizardmen Calendar had predicted the end of the world… like they knew something bad was going to happen thousands of years ago but didn’t know what. Its an obvious nod to all the Mayan conspiracy theories that existed prior to the doomsday predictions of 2012 (that were proved to be false by many Mayan historians, but that doesn’t make as good of a story). But in a fantasy universe, anything is possible!
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
  3. Warden
    Skar-Veteran

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    So this project has been a long time in coming.

    Was inspired to start putting this together a few months ago when I was looking up dates for my Lizardmen fluff through various books. Started noticing differences between the 6th, 7th, and 8th edition books, plus dates from the Lustria Campaign Book and other sources. I created this list to help me keep the Warhammer Lizardmen timeline straight, from the earliest arrival of the Old Ones into the Warhammer World up until the End Times blew it up.

    Got some additions to make: I am currently putting the finishing touches on a Lizardmen Calendar system, similar to the one used by the pre-Columbian Mayans on their stelae and in the carvings of their ancient ruins. Once I am finished I will add some descriptions of how it works (for a previous, I have been using this link).

    Sources used:

    Warhammer Lizardmen Army Book (6th, 7th, and 8th Editions)
    Warhammer Lustria Campaign Book
    Warhammer Rulebook (multiple editions)
    Warhammer Daemons of Chaos Army Book (8th Edition)

    I hope someone else finds this useful too! Let me know what you think, and if anyone has any dates to add please let me know and I can add them
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  4. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

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    IIRC, there are a few Special Characters who have specific dates associated with them. I'll see if I can drum some stuff up and PM you.

    Awesome idea, btw.
     
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  5. thedarkfourth
    Temple Guard

    thedarkfourth Well-Known Member

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    I suggest our benevolent dictator seize control of this information in the name of the people's republic and move it for safekeeping to the Lustriapedia.
     
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  6. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    Dictator....Republic... is L-O a republic in the same sense that the People's Democratic Republic of Korea isn't?
     
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  7. thedarkfourth
    Temple Guard

    thedarkfourth Well-Known Member

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    Lustria is a republic in the same sense that America now is. OOOO CONTROVERSIAL

    Actually, what is Lustria's system of government? I'd call it a bureaucratic technocracy (rule by the educated/experts, ie the skink priests) with a constitutional oligarchy (technically slann are in charge but they don't interfere much). Although you could say that the whole thing is better described as a obsessively dogmatic theocracy (rule by the religious elite, in service to a religious supreme goal)
     
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  8. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    Lustria is first and foremost a theocracy in my mind. Theocratic governments subsume both the oligarchic (small groups of elites (Slann) control the wider governance via ostensive divine mandate) and technocratic aspects (social hierarchy is determined by expertise in religious affairs (Slann>Priests>Oracles), with the only exception being the military.) I'd call it principally statist also, however I'd be quick to reject comparisons to socialist or communist ideals as, although cosmetically there a themes in a one-party state (Slann), a strong emphasis on communal goals, and probable collectivism (do Lizardmen have personal property?), beyond that the comparisons diverge dramatically; most obviously Lizardmen society has one of the most static class systems in the Warhammer world. Ripe for some Skinkist-marxist revolutionaries imo.

    I say all this whilst sipping tea in one of the only non-republican countries in the western world.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
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  9. Warden
    Skar-Veteran

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Updated the history timeline.

    - Changed a few errors in some individual entires
    - Added Lizardmen Long Count dates (green)
    - Added Lizardmen Calendar background/pictures, plus notes on the construction of the calendar and a short tutorial of how to figure out your own dates.

    If anyone can't figure out the tutorial and needs me to calculate a specific date in the Warhammer timeline, just let me know! Here are two other sources of dates I have found on the internet with some non-Lizardmen specific events:

    Lexicanum timeline
    Lexicanum- End Times
    Bretonnian timeline (Round Table of Bretonnia)

    If anyone knows of more let me know so I can peruse them for more stuff to add to the timeline.

    I agree, at face value Lustrian society makes me think of a theocracy: a small, elite cadre of priests rules everything, and their word is the word of the Gods.

    But there are a lot of similarities to the society that developed in the Indian subcontinent; specifically with the strict caste system: the most important and holy priests on top (Slann), then the lesser priests (skink priests), then the warriors (saurus), then the workers and artisans (skinks), then the laborers (kroxigors), and on the bottom were the slaves/untouchables (everyone else, including lobotomized human minions). Obviously I am oversimplifyling a bit of course, as in the lore there isn't much spoken about "reincarnation" or even much about an afterlife at all, because the caste system isn't so much a religious construct as it is a massive biological program.

    Which then makes the society look more like an artificially constructed collectivist/communist society, where the leaders are immortal, infallible, and beyond question, while the masse are bred, indoctrinated, and programed from birth/spawning till death to unquestionably and whole-heartedly to serve the state.

    I would love to see a skink-Marxist revolution take place (or at least be written about). The closest things ever got to a rebellion were during the Age of Sotek/War of the Rat when the skinks deliberately went against the established order, sacrificed to a new god, and saved the Lizardmen world.
     
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  10. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Does the AoS continue with timeline fluff ?
    Or have they not even bothered.
     
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  11. Warden
    Skar-Veteran

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    It looks like no one bothered. "Thousands of years," "Millenia," nothing concrete. There is a decent amount of information on id4chan (plus a lot of angry-speech) concerning the generic flow of the fluff, but I haven't found anything similar to what used to be in the old army books. Which is sad, the history gave a lot of depth to the game.

    So far as I can make out, here is the AOS timeline in nutshell:



    End Times- the Old World is destroy.

    Slann and the Lizardmen fly into space.


    After End Times- Sigmar floats around in the void.

    At some point the Lizardmen are infused with star-magic... maybe they evolve?


    Age of Myth- Sigmar finds the eight-ish realms and the other gods (super friends).

    They reintroduce civilization to the lost peoples.

    There is much rejoicing.


    Age of Chaos- Gorkamorka gets bored and decides to backstab everyone.

    Nagash wants to become the supreme god of the dead, and the alliance falls apart.

    The chaos gods come back and find the realms, and start take them over in apocalyptic battle (end times #2).

    Sigmar retreats and seals off the Realm of Heaven, leaving the rest of the realms to be taken over by Chaos.

    Khorne realizes he has nothing left to kill when he and the other chaos gods finally defeat Sigmar, and turns on his allies. Slaanesh gets captured by the elves, the Horned Rat revels in the general backstabbery, and Nurgle doesn't care as long as there are more bodies lying around rotting. Just as Tzeentch planned.


    Age of Sigmar- Sigmar's counterattack to reclaim the lost realms.


    ...so aside from Sigmar, there is no other race save the Lizardmen who have a continuity from the Old World to this new era. Potentially the history timeline could be linked with the Lizardmen calendar (the Piktun is a very large order of measurement 7000+ years, theoretically Age of Myth could start at 3.0.0.0.0.0, Age of Chaos at 4.0.0.0.0.0, and Age if Sigmar at 5.0.0.0.0.0), but I have no knowledge of any actual DATES given in any Age of Sigmar lore, or what the scope of this timeline is actually supposed to represent other than "a really long time."

    If anyone has some let me know what references to look up.
     
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  12. Carnikang
    Temple Guard

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    If I remember right, the God Dracothian led the Slann to the Mortal Realms, after he helped Sigmar make them. Or something similar. I know that Dracothian=Sotek basically atm in supposed fluff.

    Also, I don't really know if their are dates associated. The Campaign books are the closest we have to a timeline in AoS.
     
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  13. Warden
    Skar-Veteran

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Where are you getting Sotek being the original dragon guy? I haven't found that anywhere. Is it in the new book?

    I did find this link, but there are zero dates. I still cant find any dates anywhere. Not ever the sigmarines have dates associated with them. Did everyone stop keeping track of time or years in AOS? That's what it looks like...

    Edit: also does anyone know of a complete list of Slann anywhere, either for the Warhammer timeline or in AOS? All these names are getting confusing, I am curious how many of the new AOS ones were even mentioned in the old lore or if they were all made up specifically for the new stuff
     
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  14. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Only a few of the older Slann are named, and virtually none of the younger generations.
     
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  15. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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  16. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    ... looks like 7th and 5th have most of the fluff.
     
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  17. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Red Devil is in charge but he is often dealing with his real life issues contemplating the Great Plan of the Old Ones leaving the younger Slann to run things who also drift in and out of active forum participation in a Slann-like fashion. L-O really is a microcosm of fluff Lustria. Very rarely do we have to actually moderate anything. Just periodically check our spam net before deleting it because SOMETIMES a non-spam post from a new member gets caught in there.

    EDIT: Oh, I added this to the formal resource section
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  18. Warden
    Skar-Veteran

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Working AOS Timeline

    Ok so after a bit of research (on wikis since I don't have the actual books) I compiled a list of pre-and-during AOS events based on the new material. I am not very happy with how much of this new fluff is laid out, mostly because there is zero concept of how these events tie into a greater whole and how they link up with one another on a linear timeline. The vast majority of "seraphon-specific" events could occur at any time (i.e. complicated-lizardmen-spelling-STARHOST attacks bloody/rotting/sorcerous/ratty-lord at skull-covered/putrid/entropic/ratty-location).

    I did my best to sort these events out, or at least the MAJOR events, in a timeline that made the most sense to me. I also invented some dates to add to the overall calendrical system, I would be curious to hear your thoughts. Starting with:


    the End Times

    2528 (1.19.19.19.17.19. 2 Kawak. 2 Muwan): Skaven prepare plans to blow up the moon

    (2.0.0.0.0.0. 3 Ajaw. 3 Muwan): Warhammer World Ends- Chaos Moon Erupts

    (2.0.0.0.0.1. 4 Imix. 4 Muwan): Lizardmen leave the Old World in temple-ships (exodus engines)


    the Lost Age


    (2.0.0.3.0.6. 10 Kimi'. 14 K'ank'in): Slann navigate their stellar-temples out far beyond the reach of the Ruinous Powers (leave the solar system)

    (2.7.12.3.1.11. 4 Chuwen. 4 Sotz'): Sigmar befriends Dracothian (Sotek), shows him the hidden paths between the realms

    Slann Starseers arrive in the Realm of Azyr, following the trail of Sigmar and Sotek

    Slann arrive in High Azyr, take their place in the Void Above, the Empire-within-the-Stars

    Sigmar reinvigorates the cloud Mallus, releasing the souls of the Old World, begins construction of the fortress of Azyr


    the Age of Myth

    (2.10.0.0.0.0. 6 Ajaw. 18 K'umk'u): All realms are rediscovered, beginning of the Age of Myth

    Defeat of Vulcatrix the Salamander, release of Grimnir and Grungi

    Tyrion and Teclis discovered in the Realm of Light. Alarielle awakens in the Realm of Life, plants the seeds of the Sylvan Peoples

    Gorkamorka released from the "sapient amber" Drakatoa

    Nagash is discovered in the Realm of Death as the god of the Afterlife, joins the Pantheon



    the Age of Chaos (second End Times)

    (2.17.6.5.1.8. 8 Lamat. 1 Wayeb'): Chaos in the Warp discovers the Winds of Magic, that leads them to the realms and begins conflict with the Pantheon

    Gorkamorka breaks from the Pantheon and begins the Great WAAAGH through all eight Realms and the Warp, completely overtakes the Realm of Beasts

    Nagash splits from the Pantheon and betrays Sigmar, retreats and claims the Realm of Death


    (2.17.9.5.16.11. 6 Chuwen. 4 Wayeb'): Chaos begins full-scale invasion of all eight realms


    A dozen of the greatest surviving Slann gather beneath the stars of Azyr in the Conclave of Seers

    Slann master the art of Azyr-magic, recreating the lost race of Lizardmen warriors as beings of memory and pure star-magic, the very fabric of the Lore of the Heavens

    (2.18.0.0.0.0. 11 Ajaw. 13 Pop): The stars realign as the Seraphon are invigorated with new purpose, and visit vengence upon the forces of Chaos in accordance with the new designs of the Great Game. Many primitive cultures take to worshipping the lizards from the stars.

    Rain of Stars- Stars fall over Aqshy, mysteriously destroying a dozen Chaos fortresses

    the World Orrery above the City of Forges begins to move; seraphon battle chaos worshippers within its spars and wheels

    Blood Moon Rises- Vergore Hooktongue is inturrupted in his ceremony to Khorne by a seraphon ambush

    Slann Yuqal-tak is slain on the Basalt Shores by a greater-daemon of Nurgle, though his army continues to fight on to victory without him before they fade into starlight

    The Idol of Doom built by Rurgort Bonecracker is attacked by a starhost; Rurgort is crushed as the tower topples

    the Bridge of Sorrows between Shyish and Ulgu is reopened, seraphon intervene to seal the gateway

    The Slaaneshi Herald Clepsyrian seeks her master at the Temple of the Dead Gods, only to be driven out by the seraphon

    (2.19.0.0.0.0. 10 Ajaw. 3 Mak): The Great Civilizations are destroyed, Sigmar retreats into the Realm of the Heavens and seals the realmgates entering his domain

    Copper King of the Forge Vales pledges his people to Tzeetch in a ninety-nine day ritual.

    On the 98th day, instead of the Changer of Ways, the Seraphon appear, and show no mercy

    Deep within the City of Cogs, the Seers of Nizt craft a device to predict the movements of the stars (and therefore, the movements of the Seraphon). Moments after the machine is activated, it shows a strange celestial motion, predicting the imminent seraphon attack that then slaughtered all the seers and destroyed the device.

    Slann Zectoka attacked the skaven and pestilent spawn breeding in the Runnel Pits of Ghur

    Eternal Flames of the Balefane are corrupted by Tzeentchian Archanites, which cause the flames to burn with insane rainbow hues. Showing no mercy to the ancient cyclopean temple, the seraphon destroy it to quench the flames

    With all realms conquered (and devastated) by the Chaos hordes, Khorne betrays the forces of the Chaos Pantheon and attacks them instead of beginning the invasion of Azyrheim

    Toc-choa the Sunlord reveals the hidden foes of the Gloomspire (Realm of Shadows?), shifting the heavens and attacking them


    The seraphon destroy the gore-locks leading the murdered-souls to the Etoch Temple, starving it and causing its destruction

    Warhost of Ku-Quar aids orruk warlord Gitslinger in his war with Clan Pestilens in the Pits of Gargantua


    the Age of Sigmar

    (3.0.0.0.0. 9 Ajaw. 8 Sotz'): Sigmar opens the gates of Azyr and unleashes his new armies into the realms to reclaim them from chaos; in the wake of the fury of Sigmar's Tempest the seraphon rally in great numbers across all the realms

    the Seraphon arrive to aid the Hammers of Sigmar against the Goretide of Khorne in the Brimstone Peninsula in the Realm of Fire

    Starmaster Zectoka descends upon the Obsidian Isle befor ethe Fortress of Embers, and slays the Khornate lord Kaelgor

    Arcanite Zagul plots to capture slann Tetolok in a Tzeetchian maze, but is instead sealed in a prison in the realm of the heavens

    Seraphon attack the forces of Nurgle in the Realm of Life, along with the hosts of Alarielle and the forces of Sigmar

    Slann Qulaqul brings the Seven Stars of Azyrandia into alignment, surprising the emerging army of the Nurgle-aligned Surppurating Lord of the Festering Gulch. The Seraphon army is defeated, but their essence is soaked into the ground, cleaning the Gulch of its horrific taint

    Slann Ockatla ends the Battle of Splintered Bones with a conjured stampede of giant horned beasts, whose herds remained in the realm long after the Seraphon departed.

    Seraphon construct the impossible Geometric Tower upon the Dreaming Plains of Hysh

    Archeon mounts his attack on the Hammers of Sigmar in the Realm of Fire
     
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  19. Slanputin
    Carnasaur

    Slanputin Well-Known Member

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    @Warden what sources did you use? I recognise some from the Seraphon Battletome. I'm curious about the following specifically: references to Dracothion as Sotek; the re-invigoration of Mallus and the rain of souls; references to the "Void Above"; and the creation of the Seraphon at the council of seers.

    I assume the mention of Dracothion-as-Sotek was after the Battletome was released, as different Starhosts/Constellations referenced them individually.
     
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  20. Warden
    Skar-Veteran

    Warden Well-Known Member

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    Good catch I forgot to cite my sources. Since I didn't have access to the hard book I used a combination of all the following links, most of which use the battletome as a source:

    http://www.talkwargaming.com/2015/07/news-age-of-sigmar-backstory.html
    http://www.talkwargaming.com/2015/08/editorial-five-reasons-to-love-age-of.html
    https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer:_Age_of_Sigmar
    http://ageofsigmar.wikia.com/wiki/Seraphon


    Dracotion/Sotek: I saw the piece about Dracothion-as-Sotek on 1d4chan in the After End Times section. I do not know the actual source, but I also saw @Carnikang mention it. Wonder what the serpent-king was doing floating around in the void? Only "old-one" who actually still exists? He is specifically mentioned as a "celestial dragon."

    Mallas is mentioned in the AOS wiki as a "repository" for all the souls that existed after the Old World was destroyed, possibly even being a "soul" of the world-that-was. I almost got the impression it was alive? Now it apparently hangs in the sky right above Sigmar's city, because its where the mine the metal named after himself to build his minions.

    Void Above/Council of Seers- both these events were also mentioned in the AOS wiki somewhere but I cant access the link currently. I believe both were only in the generic one-liners that comprised most of the fluff on the page. "Void Above" makes me think SPAAAACE!
     
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