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8th Ed. Phoenix Guard - who thought they were a good idea?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Karnus, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. Karnus
    Saurus

    Karnus Member

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    So I had a game against a high elf opponent last month and I would have won (Battlelines, settled on a draw as there was no clear winner points wise) but I couldn’t scratch his block of Phoenix Guard with BSB and wizard in it.

    4+ Ward save (upgraded to 3+) for the unit, halberds that always strike first, and some other special crap. Standard OP high elf stuff :p

    I thought maybe the blade of realities, maybe dwellers? I’m at a loss as to what to do about them.
     
  2. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Did it have the special over powered BSB in it was well ?
     
  3. Karnus
    Saurus

    Karnus Member

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    He most certainly did, I can’t remember what it was, but it did some kick ass stuff (fight in extra rank, re-roll something or other maybe?)
     
  4. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Banner of the World Dragon.
    Its 2+ ward save against magical attacks/spells.
     
  5. Karnus
    Saurus

    Karnus Member

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    That’s the puppy, I couldn’t remember why I didn’t take dwellers, but that’s it.

    Any advice?
     
  6. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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  7. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Dwellers bypasses all saves, so a 2+ ward save will do nothing to protect him. Elves don't like Dwellers!
     
  8. Karnus
    Saurus

    Karnus Member

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    It does rely on taking life, it’s not guaranteed. But I did forget it doesn’t allow ward saves of any kind.

    I’ll have a play with arcane unforging but I didn’t think the destroying magical items effect happened unless a wound was inflicted? And I had no idea it effected magic standards?
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Agreed. It is definitely not a guaranteed tactic, although if it works it will be devastating to the unit.

    You could also use a defensively tooled up Oldblood cowboy (1+ armour, 4+ Ward, crown of command) to tie up the unit for the entire game. Even with their halberds, the Phoenix Guard are only striking at S4. They are highly unlikely to be able to get through the Oldblood's defenses. Then use your remaining forces to take care of his army.

    Looking at the spell, it in no way stipulates that a wound must be caused in order to trigger the magic item destroying effect of the spell.
     
  10. Karnus
    Saurus

    Karnus Member

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    You are 100% right. I have been reading it as “after a wound has been inflicted” which is clearly wrong on my part. I have been using the spell wrong!

    That’s still a 3+ Ward save in most scenarios though :(

    I’m leaning towards tooling up an old blood to tie them up but he will scoop up the best items leaving not much for the scar vets - it also means I can’t tool up my Slann the way I would want at 2500 points. Tricky.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  11. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Stupidly powerful item... :meh:
     
    n810 likes this.
  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Yup... the very definition of an auto-include.
     
  13. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Clearly the Developers personal favorite army. :meh:
     
  14. Karnus
    Saurus

    Karnus Member

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    This is why I want to make them redundant. To see my opponents face when they are liquefied by.... something!
     
  15. Lord-Marcus
    Slann

    Lord-Marcus Sixth Spawning

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    And then put every damn heavy hitter you have into flanks/rear
     
  16. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That is an option. Or just use your superior forces to take care of the rest of his army.
     
  17. Lord-Marcus
    Slann

    Lord-Marcus Sixth Spawning

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    I thought you wanted to see pretty models be removed from the field?
     
  18. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    In this case that would be the rest of his army.
     
  19. Lord-Marcus
    Slann

    Lord-Marcus Sixth Spawning

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    True
     
  20. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    I find that often the best solution to uber-death stars are simply holding them in place. Not all armies can pull this off, but 2 of my 3 armies are definitely up to the task.
     

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