Alright, I'm starting this because there's been debate raging on the T9A forum about whether or not the Cloud is overpowered, and I want to throw some ideas out there without showing off for all those non-Lizzie players the best ways to dismantle a Cloud. I started playing a Cloud. I beat my friends. They adapted. Now their tailored lists can beat me, hands-down, and their all-comers lists always include tools for dealing with the Cloud. So I find it a little absurd that competitive players find it too much to deal with, and I wonder if we wouldn't have to up the price tag on Skinks at all if people just started playing differently. But I don't play in highly competitive tournaments, so I'm putting these thoughts out there for you all to run with. Also, if this goes better in "Discussion", please, somebody, feel free to move it there. So here goes. 1. Random Movement. My Skaven and OnG friends have a field day with this. You can't get out of their charge arc, because they don't charge - they just rotate to whichever direction they want to go. You can't stand and shoot, because they don't declare charges, and you can't flee, for the same reason. You can't trap them, because they can always go their full movement in any direction. So avoidance doesn't work, except by getting so far away from the unit that you are out of their movement range...and also out of shooting range. Haven't any of you ever had your swarms of Skinks wiped off the table by a few units of Squig Hoppers? HPA's, Doomwheels, Squigs of all kinds, and Pump Wagons will pretty much break a unit of 10-12 Skink Skirmishers/Hunters on contact...they might even annihilate the unit completely. 2. Run Them Down. Small units of Skinks will die and break against basically everything, if they meet it in combat. They are as bad as Skavenslaves, or worse. So if a unit of cavalry - any cavalry - actually makes contact with a unit of Skinks, you can be pretty sure those Skinks will be wiped out. Obviously, this can be used to draw the Cav into a trap, and can be be avoided with the double-flee. So Cav is not quite as ironclad as Random Movement...but still, there are cheap Skink-hunting options in all Elven Cav, Wolf riders, most chariots, flying critters, flying units, flying characters...anything fast that hits harder than a wet noodle. 3. Panic! I've seen people saying that a swarm of Skinks is just too many models to kill. But T2 5+AS doesn't hold up against almost anything. You don't need to kill every Skink, you only need to kill enough to panic the unit. If they were all in one big unit, that might be harder, but little units of 10-12 only need to lose 3 models to take a panic test, and Skinks are fraidy-cats. And the Skirmisher rule gives them some protection against shooting...but you only need to lose 3! Sure, the General's leadership bubble will help that a lot, and our new Ld-bubble-spreading Discipline does that, too...But 8 units of Skinks take up a lot of table. There's no way you can cover the whole army with the General's bubble, and Skink characters can be picked off. Especially when one of the strategy's key tactics involves fleeing 2 units at a time, a Cloud can turn into a rout quickly, and without even getting into a fight. Does your enemy concentrate his army in the middle, and try to get to grips with your Skinks in close combat? Of course you're going to win. Does he spread out his fast units in pairs, forcing you to spread out your Skinks while his tough stuff comes for your General? Those Skinks out on the flanks aren't going to rally. Or survive. So what am I missing? With a lot of ways for the Skink Cloud to crumble, why are serious players so afraid of it? And what would you field to destroy a Cloud?