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AoS Question about Nighthaunt: Wave of Terror vs Razordon: Instinctive Defense?

Discussion in 'Rules Help' started by Zeke, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:50 PM.

  1. Zeke
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    Zeke New Member

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    This is a question is about priority. Which would happen first? I played a game last night against Nighthaunt and they got their Wave of Terror charge off on my Razordons... We weren't sure of the priority so NH got to attack before the Razordons Instinctive Defense went off. If my Razordons got to go first he would of had 2 models left in the unit but I instead lost 3 Razordons.

    After reading over both of the abilities today I feel like the Razordons Instinctive Defense should occur first, since you are shooting as they are charging in and the NH unit would not be in combat range until after it completes its charge move. Is this correct or did I miss something?
     
    LizardWizard likes this.
  2. LizardWizard
    Carnasaur

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    If multiple units have abilities that trigger simultaneously then the units under control of the player who's turn it is happen first.
     
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  3. Zeke
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    Zeke New Member

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    Okay so we did do it right during the game. Thank you very much @LizardWizard. It is greatly appreciated.
     
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  4. Dr Kaos
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    Dr Kaos Member

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    The player whose turn it is chooses the order things occur. Usually it means his own units' effects first.
     
  5. Zeke
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    Zeke New Member

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    Thanks @Dr Kaos much apprecaited.
     
  6. Canas
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    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Imho the phrasing of the razordons should be changed into something like "after the models finish their charge movement, before any secondary effects of their charge are resolved". Having those secondary effects go first rather defeats the point of having razordons as you're trying to deter charges, but if they get to go first they can largely ignore your deterrent.

    Plus, logically speaking the razordons would fire before your opponent actually gets into a melee with them and not wait until they're in biting range.
     
  7. Dr Kaos
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    Dr Kaos Member

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    See the Nighthaunt ability as them being so fast that they surprise everyone. After all, it only happen on an unmodified charge roll of 10+ after all.
     
  8. Canas
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    Canas Well-Known Member

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    I disagree any mechanic that's along the lines of "charge near us and you get hurt" should be resolved during the charge & before any follow-up effects caused by the charge as otherwise they won't ever be able to fullfill their purpose of detering charges.

    Also, this nighthaunt ability wouldn't be the only ability with this issue, bonusses immeadiatly after a charge are fairly common. For example mighty skull crushers would first crush a bunch of razordons before the razordons would shoot at them cuz their murderous charge ability is triggered at the same moment.
     
  9. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Sorry, but I'm pretty confident Razordons shoot first.


    ____________________________


    Instintive defence: Once per turn, if an enemy unit ends a charge move within 3" of this unit, roll a dice...

    Wave of terror: can fight immediately after you complete the charge move.


    ____________________________

    If you can attack with WoT, it's because you have completed the charge. The charge ends, and you immediately attack.
    But when the charge ends, the razordons unit rolls a dice, you cannot bypass it.

    WoT lets you attack "immediately after" the charge; ID happens exactly when it ends.


    Basically, there's a little but substantial difference between "when a thing ends" and "immediately after it ends"
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 12:54 PM
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  10. Canas
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    Canas Well-Known Member

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    It gets even weirder with the mighty skullcrushers as they determine the mortal wounds on a model by model basis, but only assign the damage after the charge as a whole has finished. With @Killer Angel 's reading that'd result in both units doing damage as if the other doesn't shoot/trample them.
     
  11. Zeke
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    Zeke New Member

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    Haha that is very true and was my original thinking @Killer Angel and @Canas. Although it didn't matter much for that game in particular, it will have to be something that we discuss in the future.
     

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