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AoS Ripperdactyls and Terradons

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Christopher, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. Christopher
    Razordon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    As I'm painting up my first unit of three Ripperdactyls, I'm considering what to do with the unopened box containing a second unit of them (or Terradons).

    My plan had been to build and paint the next trio as Terradons because, hey, I don't have any of those, but then I started noticing that a lot of the lists in the Seraphon Army Lists subforum include six Ripperdactyls. I mean, a lot of them. And very few, if any, lists include Terradons.

    Now, I do know that I want some Terradons at some point, just as a completist collector. But I also want to field effective armies. Are Ripperdactyls really that much better than Terradons?

    Also, when folks write up their lists, they usual note the Ripperdactyls this way:

    6xRippers

    Does that mean they're fielding them as a unit of six? Or is it just shorthanding two units of three? It seems to me that getting two Blot Toads on the table, as you would with two units of three, would outweigh any benefits that might be realized from fielding a unit of six. But if I knew for sure, I wouldn't be posting this!
     
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  2. Joshua Horchler
    Temple Guard

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    I have done both. Typically you use Rippers in the Shadowstrike starhost. 3 Rippers coming in from reserves are best used for targeting out of position, weaker heroes and small, objective grabbing troops/units. When you move to a bigger group of rippers, you can try to go for a bigger alpha strike, targeting larger units and stronger heroes. The answer to what is better comes down to what your list is trying to do. I prefer six in the Shadowstrike starhost because if you are investing in it, I like to get more out of the Rippers the turn they come down. If your list doesn’t have a lot of other alpha striking/teleporting units than maybe using 3 to target small units/heroes hiding in your opponent’s backfield would be better. If you select the wrong target or overestimate their dmg, you can spend a lot of points and not get much back. Hence the glass cannon description you often hear.

    IMO they are best used in Shadowstrike and are much better than the current state of Terradons. Terradons are unreliable and sort of gimmicky. With all the rerolls and deep striking from the Shadowstrike starhost, you can predict what dmg your Rippers will do and helps you to get the most of them. I always like reliable units (lots of rerolls) because you can be more tactical and there is less variance.
     
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  3. Christopher
    Razordon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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  4. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    I am the opposite, I like to use Terradons in the Shadowstrike and gamble a bit for the mortal wounds caused by the bombs.
    (which is funny because I normally like reliable units more. I admit the IMO vastly better looks of the Terradons might be a factor too)

    Also Terradons are ranged units. They cause wounds less reliably than Rippers but they are more versatile as you can use them for harassment better. Rippers are basically a kamikaze unit, and it is the only way to play them. Terradons can do more. I magnetized their weapons to be even more versatile. Six of them in a Shadowstrike can annihilate or at least severely cripple a 400 point behemoth (such as a Maw-Krusha or a Zombie Dragon or a Rogue Idol) in one round almost reliably, I have seen that on the table more than once.

    As for units of six vs. units of three: Yes. Rippers (and to a slightly lesser degree Terradons) are glass cannons so you want all of them to hit before the enemy does, which is why a unit of six is better than two units of three.
    Also a Shadowstrike only allows using one unit in the bataillon.

    Occasionally people use nine, and it can work, but it is a big risk as the unit becomes a bit unwieldy. I would say that's more practical for Terradons than Rippers (because ranged).

    I love the Shadowstrike. In fact I like it so much, I wrote a song about it (no joke, I even posted the text on the forums)! :D
     
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  5. Jason839
    Chameleon Skink

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    I feel that terradons got better with the ability to teleport them behind enemy lines. I still prefer rippers though. I’ve been experimenting lately with keeping a unit of 3 in the sky to snipe important targets while keeping a larger unit of 6 on the ground to teleport and threaten big scary charges.
     
  6. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    One thing people also forget about Terradons, specifically about their ability to drop bombs:

    Let's say the enemy has a Maw-Krusha, deployed at the flank of his army.
    It is no big problem to find a place to put your Terradons, 9" away of him (toward the side or perhaps just in front of the enemy army)
    They have a 14" fly move. So you might think: "Damn. I cannot drop bombs because I am 9" away, and I have to end my move at least 3" away from him which doesn't work because I have to fly over his whole base and then 3" more, so I would have to fly 18" to make it, and there are units (or the end of the table) behind him anyway. Grrrr."
    Well, that's wrong. Nobody says you have to fly a straight line while moving.
    Fly towards him (9"), a bit over him, dropping your bombs while turning around, (Let's say it costs you 1"), flying into the direction you came from, or any other direction that makes sense because there are not a lot of enemies there (4"). You end up in range for shooting your bolas, and you will most likely make the charge, denying the Maw-Krusha his own charge attack which is pretty strong.
    Judging by the rules as written only one of your Terradons actually has to pass over the target for all of them to drop their bombs. I guess the others just do toss bombing like military airplanes do in real life. Which means that you might be able to place some of them further away if you wish.

    Last week I encountered a Rogue Idol and killed it that way. Sure it halved the mortal wounds, but I shot it afterwards (with the six Terradons and a Stegadon) and that was enough already. Easy kill.
     
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  7. Joshua Horchler
    Temple Guard

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Good points by Aginor. My only thought is that, if you are looking for Mortal wounds, there are more reliable methods. Albeit, Seraphon have some of the fewest ways to deliver mortal wounds, but I would look to the Slann and ETOG for mortal wounds or even allies.

    For me, it is difficult to invest in Terradons because almost everything they do hits on a 4+. 4+ for bolas and 4+ on their one time rock throw. You just never know how the dice will turn out, even in the long run, the unit is going to be half effective. I think they could use a small buff. If bolas or the rocks were 3+, I think they would be much better. I also tend to stay away from 1 time effects that are less reliable because if it wiffs you kind are screwed. That being said, they are definitely fun to use and really cool looking (like all Seraphon models). You can definitely still get some mileage out of them!
     
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  8. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Yeah I agree that they could be a bit better. But then they are cheaper than Rippers so it might actually be fair.
    The one-time use of the bombs and the lack of reliability is what bothers me the most. The bolas for example are fun, but less so if you only get one wound roll and that fails...
     
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  9. Joshua Horchler
    Temple Guard

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    I posted this last year but here is what you can expect from 6 Rippers in Shadowstrike, the turn they come in:

    6 Rippers:

    x6 Moonstone Warspears
    - hitting on 4+ with re-roll, wounding on 3+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) = average of 4 wounds
    x18 Slashing Claws - hitting on 3+ with re-roll, wounding on 2+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) = average of 16 wounds
    x18 Vicious Beak (next to toad) - hitting on 4+ with re-roll, wounding on 2+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) + an average of 14 more hits from Voracious Appetite = average of 21 wounds


    4+16+21 = 41 Wounds on average at "-" Rend.

    The +1 to wound rolls is huge. It is so powerful when you have 2+ re-roll to wound.
     
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  10. Christopher
    Razordon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty awesome, but it isn't it dependent on a target unit being within range of the Blot Toad? Won't most players keep their units away from the Toad while the Ripperdactyls are still in the sky awaiting deployment?
     
  11. Joshua Horchler
    Temple Guard

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Found the below:

    "I think we have beaten the Ripper nerf!!!

    Ben Johnson has just brought the new alteration to the Question that caused the Blot Toad nerf debate to our attention.

    It now reads :"Q: Can model set up somewhere in the other than the battlefield (in the Celestial Realm, for example) use abilities or command abilities to affect other units?

    New Answer: No, Only models deployed on the battlefield can use abilities or command abilities to affect other units."

    "the old answer didn't have the last bit on the end. So as the toad is an ability, it couldn't be placed when they were off table. Now, they aren't affecting other units when they place the toad, so it can be placed, just like how a Prime increases his attacks off board etc.."
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  12. Ecozh
    Saurus

    Ecozh Member

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    That's why you play with 2x 3 Rippers.

    That gives you less sounds at once but more tactical flexibility.

    Last night my bastiladon and 3 Rippers munched through a Stonehorn on an objective while the other 3 Rippers cleaned the other objective and continued to retreat afterwards.

    With the Telesport ability, 3 Rippers that van later on appear somewhere else is huge.

    (BTW that Teleport is also Nice to replaces your camoskinks so they van keep firing).
    1 tyrant, 1 butcher and some other ogres fell victom to them.

    PS. I bever noticed the +1 to wound until now.. damn..
     
  13. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    The latest FAQ for 40k nerfed the abilities that let units "pop" in the opponent's side during the first turn.
    I wonder if they are going to introduce a similar limitation for things as shadowstrike starhost or the numerous "deep strike" abilities / units that are common to many armies...
     
  14. Mormblwka
    Skink

    Mormblwka New Member

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    I am terribly sorry, but from what exact formation do you have +1 to wound?
     
  15. Ecozh
    Saurus

    Ecozh Member

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    Shadowstrike Starhost.

    Last line of the final ability. Just when you think, I know what this does, they add The +1.



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Mormblwka
    Skink

    Mormblwka New Member

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    Wow, just wow

    Never read it that far)))

    Thanks a lot! Even though I reread it, haven't noticed it)
     
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  17. Joshua Horchler
    Temple Guard

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    :) Shadowstrike is the both fun to play with and really strong!
     
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  18. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    you're forgetting another important aspect. Rippers look a whole lot scarier on paper so they get a giant bullseye drawn on them. Terradons don't look nearly as terrifying so they'l largely be left alone. This allows em some more free reign to do as they please. This larger degree of freedom and their additional ranged attack makes em quite effective at harrasing your opponent and just generally being a nuisance. Nothing is quite as annoying as realizing you blocked the terradons too late and his javalins now take out a crucial supporting hero.
     
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  19. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Good point!
     
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