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AoS Save rerolls

Discussion in 'Rules Help' started by Dakash, Mar 27, 2018.

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  1. Dakash
    Skink

    Dakash Member

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    Hi, does the save reroll given by the skink priest stack with the one given by the Thunderquake battalion? Is it double reroll? Thanks :)

    Edit: I just notice it should be in the Rules Help forum. Sorry for that, if anyone can move it... :)
     
  2. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    You can’t reroll a reroll.
     
  3. Dakash
    Skink

    Dakash Member

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    Where is it said? I mean, I'm sure you are right, but i would like to know where is it written
     
  4. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    It is in the base rules. Page 1 in the middle.
     
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  5. MackiMac
    Jungle Swarm

    MackiMac New Member

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    How does it work with save modifiers? Because re-rolls comes before modifiers right?
    Saurus guard have a 4+ save and get +1 for being close to a hero. Do you re-roll all 1-3s even though 3s would be saved with the help of the modifier?
     
  6. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    well...there's rules as written and how 95% or so of people play it in reality.

    Modifiers like Mystic Shield or the one from the Saurus Guard's ability as well as the rend value of the attacking weapon would normally be applied after the reroll, that's true.
    But...nobody I know does that to be honest. Although it would really change the game if you think about it.
     
  7. Dr Kaos
    Jungle Swarm

    Dr Kaos New Member

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    The ignore -1 rend gets a lot better. Since a lot of rerolls is for failed saves the fours in the Saurus Guard example would be a success and not rerolled. With our ability to ignore rend -1 they usually stay a success when other units would not fare as well.
     
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  8. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    That's one example, yes.
     
  9. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Wait it's written as "re-roll before modifiers"? that's just weird and confusing...
     
  10. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Exactly! That's why nobody plays it that way. :D

    EDIT: Source is the base rules, page 1, middle. It says that "re-rolls happen before modifiers to the roll (if any) are applied"
     
  11. Canas
    Skink Chief

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    that's just weird... I can't really imagine any situation in which that'd be beneficial.

    Also it'd make rend weird as hell. Got re-rolls on failed saves? Well screw you this save technicly succeeded but I'm going to bypass it anyway. That doesn't even begin to make sense.
     
  12. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Exactly!
    Rend becomes VERY strong (but unwieldy to think about) when doing it that way.
    The way normal people do it, it is much easier and works the same in most cases.
     
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  13. MackiMac
    Jungle Swarm

    MackiMac New Member

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    Its really wierd, its the same in 40k
     
  14. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    it is not beneficial, it just makes stronger all the attacks with rend, as rend becomes harder to be saved by re-rolls.

    The only circumstance that I can think of, that is a benefit for the defender, is when you want to re-roll of a save that (after modifier) will be successful, but doesn't trigger special abilities.
    Example: Elven eternal guards can have a +3 to ST, and they can be buffed with the spell that inflicts a mortal wounds for each 6+. Against attacks with no rend, I can easily see you re-roll 3s and 2s, even if they would be successful saves.
     
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  15. Mormblwka
    Skink

    Mormblwka New Member

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    Guys, the problem is that you don't read the whole answer:

    Q: Some abilities allow me to re-roll a successful (or unsuccessful) roll. When this is the case, is the success or failure based on the roll before or after any modifiers are applied? A: Re-rolls happen before any modifiers are applied, so the success or failure will always be based on the unmodified roll. As an aside, when an ability says you can re-roll a failed roll, you may want to consider the effect that any modifiers will have before deciding to re-roll the dice.
    For example, if a roll succeeds on a 4 or more and you have a +1 modifier, you don’t want to re-roll ‘failed’ rolls of 3, because they will become successful after the modifier is applied!

    FAQ - page 7, last in the left column
     
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  16. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Thanks for posting, but I am a bit confused: which part do you think we haven't read?
     
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  17. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    But if your opponent has +1 rend the 3 is a fail even with the modifier
     
  18. Mormblwka
    Skink

    Mormblwka New Member

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    The part that you don't have to re-roll all rolls. So you have save of 2+ (1 for magic shield and 1 for their ability) fo your SG. Rend is -3. So their natural save is 4+ (if i am not mistaken). Opponent rolls 4 wound saves - and you roll 4 dices - 3,4,5,6. You have to re-roll all of them according to everyone posts here, but! It is allowed to do this way:
    4+3-2=5 - is your current save, so you have to re-roll only 2 dices - 3 and 4

    Re-rolls are not obligatory.
     
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  19. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Yes we know that, you never have to re roll just because you can ;)
     
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  20. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Ah OK, yeah of course you don't have to reroll, I just assumed that would be common knowledge. :D

    EDIT: But I don't see why that changes anything. If you succeed a roll (so you cannot reroll since you can only reroll failed saves) and then the rend makes the attack hit anyway that's a huge difference to applying the rend before rolling.
     

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