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AoS Seraphon 2k: Competitive All-in Magic and Summoning

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by Joshua Horchler, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. Joshua Horchler
    Razordon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Hello Lustria!

    With the changes to Kroak and the new power of the EotG's and Slann, I really think going all in on summoning and magic will be one of our strongest lists. As good as Kroak and Shadowstrike are, I also think you could go a semi more defensive route with the below. I really think this list would overwhelm a large majority of your opponents. We will have to see how good Kroak is with the new BV. I don't have the new rules in my hands yet (still shipping) so I will have to learn how useful the endless spells really are or if they just get dispelled instantly.

    The below list has so many threats to deal with. Kroak is doing his thing, the Slann is summoning, and the EotG's are floading the board with Skinks or other units. I do wish you could fit in 1 unit of rippers for a Toad so your if you summon rippers they can be more effective. Also, all the rerolls you get between Kroak and the Seer are amazing. I think something along these lines can be very competitive. Do you agree?

    LEADERS:
    Lord Kroak (450)
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    Skink Starseer (200)

    UNITS
    40 x Skinks (240) -Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60) -Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60) -Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

    ENDLESS SPELLS
    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Chronomantic Cogs (60)
    Prismatic Palisade (30)
     
  2. Taipan
    Temple Guard

    Taipan Member

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    Endless spells will definitely see play man. Top picks for us are Balewind and Cogs. I think a lot of armies with similar summoning or spell spamming options will auto-take them as well. Just as well Slann can dispel at any range.

    I wouldn't go double Engine personally. I feel like there is a serious risk of doing little for 440 points. One is a good idea though, if you cough out 20 Skinks it's great, if not it's only 220 points doing a bit of healing/damage. The other free summons won't do much tbh, they're too small in unit size and as you point out, no Toad for the Rippers unless you pay for a real unit in your army list.

    Something radical to consider is dropping the Starmaster entirely, and making Kroak your General to be a summoning god. With Balewind paying for itself (it gives you an additional spell and +1 to save, including the turn it arrives). Balewind is now immobile btw, so you'll just be camping in your backline (and you also lose Great Rememberer access). It does mean however Turn 1 you're gonna hit 18 summoning points fairly reliably (use a re-roll on your Astrolith generation if you can to hit 19). That's a whole Salamander/Razordon pack, or 20 Saurus, or even another Engine for free. If you want to, you can bank it and next turn generate 21 (again, re-roll that Astrolith to try for 3 summoning points). Turn 2 free Dread Saurian (assuming you have one). You need at least one 5-6 and one 3-4 on the Astrolith across those two turns to hit 40 summoning points, but it is doable I think.

    Palisade is really good IMO, as Balewind no longer makes you immune to melee and really exposes your Slann/Kroak as a shooting target. I'll have to check the model width, but I'm pretty sure Palisade covers Balewind's base, so its legit to be invisible in the backlines summoning free dinosaurs every turn. It only cares about the straight line between bases, the actual model height is irrelevant when you're behind it.
     
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  3. Flo
    Cold One

    Flo Active Member

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    I was thinking about a different list

    Kroak (450)
    Slann (260)
    Astrolith (160)
    Engine (220)
    Engine (220)
    Engine (220) (if @darren watson can play 4, i can play 3 with a Slann and a Kroak :p )

    10 Skinks (60)
    10 Skinks (60)
    10 Skinks (60)
    3 Rippers (140) (so i have a Toad)

    Balewind (40)
    Cogs (60)

    50 Points left which are either 1 Command Point or some additional Endless Spells (Giant Jaw, Quicksilver Swords, something like that)

    I will test this list tomorrow, will write up a battlereport and let you guys know how it was :)
     
  4. Joshua Horchler
    Razordon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Definitely agree with you on Endless, but they do seem easily dispelled so you will have to play/plan around that. The cogs you can probably hide behind LOS.

    I do think EoTG summoning is super super strong. With all the rerolls in this list and curse of fate up you are summoning at like a 70% rate. That is insane to pump out that many units per turn. Terradons aren't the worst, but I agree Rippers/Terradons will really miss the Toad. Maybe going to 1 EoTG and adding in some rippers or something would be better. But don't underestimate the usefulness of 40 skinks (20 from each). You can tarpit and contest objectives like no other!

    Also Kroak is just too damn powerful now to not use his spells. Your opponent HAS to deal with him ASAP. So I like that. I honestly think I may need an Eternity Warden in this list more than the 2nd EoTG.
     
  5. Joshua Horchler
    Razordon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Also don't forget about the versatility of the EoTG's. Some rounds you could always blast something for 2d6 mortal wounds. It's not like their other abilities are useless or that they can't fight decently in combat.
     
    Flo likes this.
  6. Joshua Horchler
    Razordon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a way to go. I don't like EoTG's as much without the extra rerolls from Starmaster and or Curse of Fates. That being said you could cast Curse from your Slann if you took Vast intellect.

    With the help of some others on this forum, we did some rough math on the EoTG's summoning. You really want Curse of Fates and rerolls. Otherwise the best you can do is like 40-50%. So really, 2 EoTG's with rerolls and curse are just as good as 3 EoTG's at 40-50% at summoning. The upside with Starseer being you have Curse and rerolls for other things as well when you don't need them for summoning.

    My biggest issue is the starting amount of chaff. It is only 30 bodies. I get that you will be summoning some more but still bugs me a little.
     
  7. Joshua Horchler
    Razordon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    A guess a sort of more "balanced" version of mine would look like this.

    LEADERS
    Lord Kroak (450)
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    Skink Starseer (200)
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Saurus Eternity Warden (140)

    UNITS
    30 x Skinks (180)
    10 x Skinks (60)
    10 x Skinks (60)
    3 x Ripperdactyl Riders (140)

    ENDLESS SPELLS

    Balewind Vortex (40)
    Chronomantic Cogs (60)
    Prismatic Palisade (30)

    2000/2000
     
  8. Flo
    Cold One

    Flo Active Member

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    Yeah the plan was to take Vast Intellect, i took the 3rd Engine over the Starseer mainly because i don't have a Starseer :)
     
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  9. Joshua Horchler
    Razordon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    I do honestly think you can win a lot of mission based games by flooding the board with Skinks. It would be super annoying for your opponent too haha.
     
  10. Taipan
    Temple Guard

    Taipan Member

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    I'm debating whether Battalions are really necessary for Seraphon. It's really just the Slann Command ability that is worth casting, and you get 1 command point every turn anyway. What do you guys think?
     
  11. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Shadowstrike and Thunderquake are strong so I would not discount them.
     
  12. Joshua Horchler
    Razordon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Battalions are still really good. I do think that we need them less than before though. With the ability to use command points, the buffs to EoTG and Kroak, the new spells and summoning we have a lot of really powerful abilities. Of course battalions can supplement these powerful abilities but I don't think they are always necessary. Before AOS2 they were much more of an auto include.

    I do still love Shadowstrike. If tournaments allow Rippers to ignore the rule of 1, as defined in the rules, it is even better. Kroak and Shadow will still be a great combo too.
     
  13. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    What?
    There are others that have really good ones, such as the Sunblood, both Scar Veterans, and both Oldbloods.

    Shadowstrike and Thunderquake are so good, people sometimes even call them broken. Draco's tail and Fangs of Sotek are also stronger now.
     
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  14. Joshua Horchler
    Razordon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I think Sarus armies will always run battalions. They are really nice and you need to stack all the buffs you can.
     
  15. Taipan
    Temple Guard

    Taipan Member

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    Yeah I've posted a draft list for Draco's Tail in the army lists subforum. I have a stupid combo involving Sallies and Razors.

    I'm not as keen on Thunderquake as I was. The healing and re-rolling wounds is nice, but everything else you can get elsewhere (Astrolith for re-roll hits, Slann for re-roll saves, Priests to re-roll charges). Firelance doesn't do as much, but it's relatively cheap by comparison. I still have a Thunderquake list I want to try, it might prove better anyway as it has more screening and three big monsters instead of 1.

    Just another dumb question, Draco's Tail is considered 1 drop like other battalions yeah?
     

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