I recall to have read something on the matter of Line of SIght regarding units with multiple models, maybe on GW facebook page, but I'm not able to find anything. The question is: if a model in a unit doesn't see the target, can it shoot to it? The immediate answer would be "no", but what I remember (and the related reasoning) is: yes. If you have LOS on a single model of a unit, you can see and target the whole unit. SO if a model has LOS on you, its unit has LOS on you (the model that sees you, inform the rest of the unit where you are) The objection was: a model behind a wall, simply cannot shoot. BUT a cannon that shoots a double salve to a unit of 10 models, with 9 of them behind a building and only one visible, is hitting also the models on which it doesn't have LOS. (basically, it goes both ways) Now, the questions: Do you remember to have read something similar? What is your take on the matter? if you don't think that all the unit in partial cover can shoot, how do you explain that the opposite works?
I read only last night about the Pestilen plagueclaw it says "this model does not need to see an enemy to shoot" or something like that. If you can see a model in a unit of 10 you can shoot at the unit and vice versa I would have thought. Can models shoot from behind a wall, what height is the wall or are all walls the same height in AOS?.
I think it depends on what is in the way, you can see through your own models in the unit, you can see through the trees, you can see over walls, and get cover if all inits are within 3 inches, unless that wall is taller than your models, in which case they can't see or be seen. So really if you have a model on your unit that can not see any part of the target or os not in range, then it doesn't shoot.
If you buy GW scenery they are all about the same height, but if you make your own then there is no height restrictions. You could literally make a wall that a carnosaur could hide behind if you wanted.
This is the way I understood it: LoS is measured FROM each model separately TO the unit. Just like in melee. To determine how many attacks you have, you just check how many models can hit ANY enemy model. So if my unit of 30 Skinks is standing in a way that my huge Bastiladon is blocking 10 of them seeing any enemy model, but ten of them can see one enemy model left of the bastiladon, and 10 of them can see one enemy model right of the Bastiladon, then I can get 20 attacks off against that unit. I would be happy if the others could hit it as well, but at the moment I have no statement supporting that theory.
Well, that is for the reach, and range works also for shooting: if I've got 20 archers but the target is out of range of 4 of them, i shoot only with 16. yeah, but dont you find weird, that those 10 skinks can be targeted by something that doesn't see them? Cannons can only shoot to things in their LOS... but suddenly, if they see just one orc (the other 19 are behind a building), they can shoot also to the ones out of sight. If you can shoot at me, I can shoot at you.
That sure sounds strange. But so do Bows requiring LoS and flying Terradons being hit by dudes with one handed axes. It is a rule made up by people to balance a game. I am not sure if the rule is good, I don't know the game that well after my short time playing it. But it is the way I understand the rules and FAQs. And yes I admit it would make more sense if there was either a cover rule mitigating that strange effect or that you could only hit visible models. But then you would also have to change the model removal rule because that one doesn't make much sense anyway.
I thought your models can see through your own models/units so they never block LOS? Or have I got that wrong.
Models can see through other models of their own units. So the Bastiladon in front of the Skinks blocks LoS. EDIT: Source being the basic rules, under "Attacking", "picking targets"
I'd discuss it with my opponent, In most cases I feel uncertain I let my opponent decide. If it's all up to me, if some of the models can see one or more of the target models, then all models of that unit in range can attack. The reasoning behind it is that I do not want to check the LOS for each model in a unit of 20+ models. I'd rather check for if the unit has LOS. I kind of comes back to my grudge with teleporting wounds in the combat phase. (You allocate the wounds to any model in the unit rather than any model in range of the attack in that unit). That rule exists for simplicity and to keep a good flow through the game. If you start nitpicking over everything that is ambigious you put yourself at risk of turning the game into 40k. (Less time playing and more time checking rules to make rulings). Edit: I forgot to mention, we have a house rule that says that if an unit is only partiably in LOS by the attacker in the shooting phase, they get +1 save.
As the most important rule of AOS says talk it through and agree, your solution is spot on and in keeping with the spirit of the game.
I totally agree with your reasoning. Regarding this specific point, it partially comes from WHFB (in combat, you removed the dead models from the back). Now, you take them away from whatever place you want... I think it's supposed that the ones dying are the front "ranks", but the models in the back fill the gaps.
That makes a lot of sense, I never thought of it like that. I think you just settled my grudge with teleporter wounds!