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8th Ed. Skink Archers, Yay or Nay? (from a tactical perspective only)

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Scalenex, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    So my friend and I figure since 8th edition is no longer being updated, we can change it as we see fit. Number one this means we can introduce new units with the addendum that we must have a model for it.

    I plan to convert my giant bow bits into stationary bolt throwers manned by Skinks, but I actually have two "new" units already. Because my collection stretches back to 5th edition, I have Skink Horned One Riders and Skink Archers. I've been converting Skink archers to javelin Skinks or zombie Skinks but I have about 60 odd painted Skink archers I don't want to convert and I really I'd rather not convert all my Skinks when I have far more exciting conversion projects I could be doing.

    There's just one problem, I really like javelins and shields. I don't see the point for blowpipes without BS 4. To get the double tap poison hitson 6s, they need to either not move at long range or be at close range with no cover, neither of these things.

    -Javelins do not get a penalty for moving and shooting, they can always stand and shoot, they come with shields.
    -Blowpipes allow double shots when circumstances are ideal.
    -Short bows have 4 inches more range, and the potential for volley fire.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but bows cannot compete with this for skirmishers. MAYBE if the Skinks are bunkering a Slann or Skink Priest they can keep farther back from the enemy and still shoot but if it's a character bunker, I want shields.

    An archer cohort has some appeal, they are more likely to be able to use volley fire but a Cohort is probably going to have to fight something in close combat eventually, and I want the shields. Also archers in a building would not be secure as javelin Skinks in a building since there is no minimum distance to the charging enemey for a javelin stand and shoot.


    When is a non-gimmicky situation I should consider archer Skinks? What if I gave the archers buckler shields?

    Skink Chiefs? Is worth giving them a bow instead of a blowpipe or javelins?
     
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  2. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    #1 Skinks should never be in close combat, unless they have a Kroxigor.
    #2 Skinks should be shooting from cover if possible.
    #3 Skinks should flee into forest or water if possible.
    #4 Skinks only ever seem to kill things when they roll 6's for poison. (and sometimes 5's)

    Ps. I would give my Chief the sun staff instead, it's basicity a 3 shot magic bow.
     
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  3. Acorn Lord
    Saurus

    Acorn Lord Member

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    I would leave the shield and make short bows replace javelins for half a point per model. And you could give them poison arrows for another half a point per model.
    Agree with the sun staff. Chief+Sun Staff= MAJOR Harassment.
     
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  4. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Not a bad idea, but I was just assuming poisoned ranged attacks was implied. Lizardmen don't shoot without poison. Even the GIANT BOW is poisoned.

    My initial thought either it would a free swap for javelins or a free swap for javelins and shields.

    The points don't make much difference to me, I'm just pondering whether 16 inch and volley fire is worth giving up "quick to fire"
     
  5. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    You can always tactically palace some razordons in front for some stand and shoot cover.

    :vamp:o_O:vamp:
     
  6. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

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    That's a tough call. Is the extra 4" really worth anything? Seeing how our Skinks skirmish anyway, there really isn't a reason to bunker them up for volley fire. Bows aren't QTF either, so there's another point against them.

    If anything, I'd say that arming them with bows should make them a half point cheaper per model. There's no benefit that I can see besides the range, and it's not even that great.

    I wonder if perhaps you were to create a new troop type for archers? Perhaps they are BS4 and cost a point extra. Or maybe they can can become Scouts. They can't step on the toes of chameleons too much less they lose their niche, but that would be the direction I'd want to explore.

    Maybe even they have light armor or bucklers like you mentioned to show that they're more ready for organized battle than a typical unit of skirmishers. And give them back their command group.

    The nice thing about being limited to only javs and pipes is just that. We're limited to two options, both with different tactical uses than the other. The bows tend to infringe in the territory of both and give us choice paralysis!
     
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  7. Acorn Lord
    Saurus

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    In the case of the skink cohort I feel the extra 4 inches would be better and you gain volley fire. However, most typical skirmisher units don't go over two ranks so the volley is useless, and skirmishers can march and fire which mostly takes away the need for 4 extra inches and makes the quick to fire even more necessary.
     
  8. Lawot
    Kroxigor

    Lawot Active Member

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    Yeah, the mobility of Skinks makes the extra 4" less important than it would be on something that was M4. The only situation I can think of in which the extra range would be really useful is this: There's a particular enemy unit you're concerned about, which has a devastating 12" ranged attack, preferably which can't move and shoot. Out-ranging that unit would be worth it.
     
  9. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    If I remember rightly the 5th edition short bow unit wasn't skirmishing.
     
  10. airjamy
    Razordon

    airjamy Active Member

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    @Scalenex , long time since i have seen you lurking around here, what's up? I think it is not worth it, volley fire does not work in the small units you want to run these guys in and quick to fire is a lot stronger when they are redirecting charges. I still feel that Skinks are really not that great anymore, SA has become a monster mash list, mostly by abusing the rules that monstrous creatures can use the armor of their rider.
     
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  11. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Well one, real life is busy. Two, I have been dragged into Age of Sigmar I haven't given up on 8th but more people are willing to play me at Age of Sigmar, so I have to split my game time.

    I am not seeing any compelling reason to take archers. Maybe Cohort Archer Skinks at 4 points a model. Maybe.
     
  12. airjamy
    Razordon

    airjamy Active Member

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    Sigmar, yeah, has it become good after it reintroduced points? I still feel that fantasy has sortoff died when everyone split up to either 8th, 9th or AoS,, or even Kings of War. Has not done a lot of good to the hobby.
     
  13. Scalenex
    Skink Priest

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I think if they released the General's Compendium initially, there would not have been a mass exodus away from GW. I do not believe Age of Sigmar is better than 8th edition now, but there is nothing wrong with it. Besides the addition of points, the General's Compedium has more rules, options, and scenarios. It is noticeably simpler than 8th edition which is winning some converts but it is not insultingly simpler which I believe the initial release of Age of Sigmar appeared to be.

    There is enough room for complex gameplay and shifting dynamics and clever tactics that I do not have to play Age of Sigmar with my nose plugged. I still prefer 8th ed though, there just aren't many players for it now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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