So as I read these rules here is "my" understanding , So to get your summoning of units you need that unit in army to benefit from rules? So its this a summon new unit, or is it call a unit to the slanns side ? If you had a named character in the army you cant call another into the fight , can you ? But then I have a block of 30 saurus and the slann can call 10 saurus to his side and leave 20 behind ? Neither way sounds right so can other give there thoughts ?
As far as I know the key is the word "summon" if a unit has the rule that it adds the relative summon spell, the slann can "summon" a totally new set of units (assuming you have the models in you possession AKA not in reserve just one you own in general) just like the chaos guys and summoning Deamon princes However these new units don't count towards your starting army count so can't be used to calculate minor victory for etc.
I think units you can summon need to be in your starting force (on field or in reserve) you can't just start with a slann and summon you whole force. Think of it as a duplication. Also reading the rules more I think the summon spell will also allow you to teleport units you already have on the field ( at least that's how I think it's worded)
Yeah I thought the rule meant teleporting more than summoning. So if I start with 30 saurus can I summon another 10 to put into play?
Yes I believe that is right. The rules say "the unit is added to your army" So any Summoned units are new.
You summon a fresh unit to the table, I don't see how this is confusing. Why would you be teleporting an existing unit about? That makes no sense from the wording which clearly states set up a new unit. It also goes with the fluff of the lizards that teleport into battle now out of nowhere to fight chaos.
Remember that the Lizardmen are now in space according to the lore they put out there during the end of times. That is why Lizardmen are summoned to fight. You cannot, should not, place a lone Slann and summon you entire force. In order to summon a unit, you have to have the same unit on the table for your Slann to have that spell. If you want TG you need to have TG in your army when you begin the game. I don’t think it matters whether they are on reserve or not. So in turn one your Slann calls forward a unit of TG and a unit of warriors and you had 20 of each on the table, now you will have 25 TG and 30 warriors on the table.
I'm not convinced that you need the unit on the table to summon them, how would you go about summoning Kroq-Gar and Gor-Rok etc Named characters should only really be fielded once on the battlefield unless you use it as a way to replace fallen heroes, but then you can argue the fact that when they die you lose the warscroll. Either way its pretty rubbish rule and adds to the list of broken things in this game. I have found just leaving it out and using my Slann as the mighty Lord Kroak instead.
Under the main rules it says that wizards can cast arcane bolt, mystic shield, and any spells listed on their warscroll. Looking at the Lizardmen warscrolls, neither Lord Kroak nor the Slann warscroll have any of the spells needed to summon anyone. Therefor I believe that in order for them to have any summoning spell you need to bring the specific warscroll to the table.
Firstly, the spell is only to summon a unit, not teleport (so as suggested, a brand new unit is spawned on table). Secondly, to summon a unit you must have it in your original army list - as well as a Slann (obvs). This is because having a unit, e.g. TG, grants the Slann the magic ability to summon said TG. I can't (as suggested) start with just a Slann, because they would nay know the stock Slann spells. The reason for all this is the rules for temple guard state "Slann Wizards know..." which means fielding the unit grants your Slann that spell. Thirdly, I completely agree with Geko747 that spawning in three Krog Gars is more than a little strange, but hey! AoS is very much a rules as written type of game, so thats the way things are. Personally I think names heroes shouldn't get the benefit, although this has provided a lot of hilarity in my local Rise of Heroes campaign (as I now have Kroq Gar in the army). I hope this clears stuff up. I've taken this view as completely rules as written (which seems to be what type of game AoS is). Therefore, if thats the way you're playing then this is how I see the rule.
I'm still not convinced. If you go by that logic then you would need 2 of a unit to be able to summon, meaning going out and buying multiple stegadons, kroq gars, terradons etc. Most people i know only have 1 of the special units etc. Which would then make a Slann useless if he cant actually summon anything to the table. Why write rules that would effectively never be used apart from to summon Saurus and Skinks. They would of just had it say that instead. If you bring all warscrolls with you on the day of battle and all your units they are effectively in your army according to the rules "In order to play, you must muster your army from the miniatures in your collection. Armies can be as big as you like, and you can use as many models from your collection as you wish. The more units you decide to use, the longer the game will last and the more exciting it will be! Typically, a game with around a hundred miniatures per side will last for about an evening." it goes on to say then "The players then alternate setting up units, one at a time, starting with the player that won the earlier dice roll. Models must be set up in their own territory, more than 12" from enemy territory. You can continue setting up units until you have set up all the units you want to be fought in this battle, or have run out of space." and... "Any remaining units are held in reserve, playing no part unless fate lends a hand." (this being the key sentence) So you could leave units out of your main force, and just field the ones that you are sending into this battle yet the warscrolls not used are still within your army, I take it to mean that as long as you own the models then you own the warscroll and the spell associated with it. Otherwise you would never summon a thing to the table in any battles making the slann the worst character choice in the whole game seen as though he is a summoner now. Also to add on, some of the rules and scenarios that look on the horizon to be released have things like you can only used named characters once. If they do include that as a main rule then it further breaks the summoning rule if you do need to take the warscroll onto the field before being able to use it.
It probably is very much a marketing ploy to get you to buy multiple monster sets (ones that normally you would only ever buy two). GW is all about the profit after all, so it wouldn't surprise me.
Well there are two ways to approach it. Rules as written (RAW) and Rules as Intended (RAI). I try to play rules as written as much as possible, but for a game like AoS rules as intended is necessary to fill gaps and make thinks make sense. That said, the way I read the warscroll rules don't prevent you from taking a warscroll only for summoning purposes. Therefore giving your Slann the summon spell regardless. If you intend to use it, just make sure your opponent knows you intend to summon models from your collection so that the armies can be properly balanced. As far as Rules as Intended. I don't think I would allow my opponent to summon a second of the exact same named character without some serious fluff explanation or crippling his army without doing so. But nothing in the rules prevents you from starting the game with 5 of the same named character and nothing else as far as I know.
I agree that it seems like the intent was that you must have a unit on the table to grant the slaan the summon spell. But that is not what the rules say. All Seraphon units which are not slaan grant to the slaan a spell which summons more of them to the table. There are no restrictions on this happening only if you are on the table. In AOS you just read the rules and go with them. Those units which grant a summon spell to the slaan just do it because it says that they do. I personally found this more palatable when I reread the basic 4 page rules. It states there that your entire collection is sitting in reserve the entire time, waiting for "fate to lend a hand'. So I felt more comfortable that units from reserve were granting abilities to units in the game, rather than units on my shelf because from previous editions I had compartmentalized these as different things. But it's just not the case this time around. The warscroll says that it grants the summon spell so that's what it does.
yup thats how I saw it. Since it's on the war scroll, if the unit is in your army then you can summon it. I've seen battle reports on youtube where people bring two slain, two 15 man squads of temple guard and then min squads of as many different useful units as they could fit. That way they could just summon a but load of anything onto the battlefield.
To be honest I've only ever used this rule to retain the most useful troops ie my terradons die and I re-summon them. As far as im concerned then if you own the model and have brought the model then you can summon the model. And for the guys saying "hey, but you cant clone models", you need to remember that the only actual character that the Seraphon have is now lord Kroak. Oh wow that last bit sounded angry. Im very sorry if it came across rude - it honestly wasnt intended. I actually agree with the people saying that - it really isnt fair to dump 5 or 6 carnosaurs on someone without facing someone like Nagash or Archaon.
Seeing as this thred just got brought back from the dead I actualy got a very good explanation for how this should work! The rules state that after set-up is complete any left over models from your collection are put to the side until "fate" says otherwise. Basicly this means that during a battle you can summon anything you have in your collection into the battle with a rule that allows it as long as you own the models to summon. All part of the fun simple way AoS was designed to play. Anything different will be house rules.
In my games i usually keep with me my whole collection of Lizzies. For the summoning we use two way. One is that you can summon every model you have with you. Example My list consists in a slann two carnosaurs two TG units and a ripper Unit. All the others are phisically with me,so i have tge warscrolls. If i want to summon i choose from the warscrolls that i want,but only once per warscroll. The other is simple, you can summon once per game every single unit on your army list but only if the unit is still on the table and alive.