So Val of Square Bases has Released his "Renegades Pack" To use his words on what the Renegades Pack is" "What this is definitely not is a full re-write of these factions, or even an attempt to balance them really. This is a mostly straightforward edit of the army lists to remove unnecessary restrictions and free up the generally good rules that already exist for the Renegade factions. If we’re to accept that the Legacy PDF Lists will be what we’ve got for a while, then I think they need to be opened up to allow more freedom in the types and styles of armies that players can create." I don't think its up for debate that Lizardmen are in a rough spot for TOW and need help. This post isn't really to discuss that, or the merits vs drawbacks of a community edit/comp of the legacy PDFs. What I'd like to discuss here is if we think these are the right fixes for our lizards, if its too much or not enough, going in the right direction etc. etc. What about the below do you like or dislike. If the Legacy PDF was this below, how do you think Lizards would be faring. With that, here are the changes. Link to the Renegades Pack Renegade Core Rules Changes When using the Renegade Army Lists the following core rules are added: Howdah: (Rulebook P. 171) ● Add: In combat, all enemy rolls To Hit are made against the Weapon Skill of the Behemoth, instead of the Crew. If this model is also a character’s mount, follow the rules for Split Profile (Chariot Mount) (Rulebook p. 205) instead. Lizardmen Renegade Army List Characters Up to 50% of your army’s points value may be spent on: ● 0-1 Slann Mage-Priest per 1,500 points ● 0-1 Saurus Oldblood per 1,000 points ● Saurus Scar-Veterans, Skink Priests and Skink Chiefs Core At least 25% of your army’s points valuemust be spent on: ● Saurus Warriors ● Skink Skirmishers and Jungle Swarms ● 0-1 unit of Temple Guard (if your General is a Slann Mage-Priest.) Special Up to 50% of your army’s points value may be spent on: ● Chameleon Skinks, Kroxigor, Temple Guard, and Cold One Riders ● Terradon Riders and Ripperdactlyl riders ● Bastiladons ● Stegadon Rare Up to 25% of your army’s points value may be spent on: ● Salamander Pack ● Razordon Pack ● Troglodon ● Ancient Stegadon Mercenaries Up to 20% of your army’s points value may be spent on mercenaries. Allies Up to 25% of your army’s points value may be spent on a single allied contingent drawn from the following Grand Army composition list: ● High Elf Realms Battle Standard Bearer A single Slann Mage-Priest, Saurus Scar-Veteran or Skink Chief in your army may be upgraded to be your Battle Standard Bearer for +25 points. In addition to their usual allowance of points to spend on magic items, a Battle Standard Bearer can purchase a single magic standard with no points limit. A Slann Mage-Priest may be both your army’s Battle Standard Bearer and its General. Lizardmen Renegade Rules Changes: Cold Blooded (Lizardmen Army List p. 20) ● Replace with the following text “When required to make a Leadership or Break Test, models with this special rule may roll an extra D6 and discard the highest result.” Slaan Mage-Priests (Lizardmen Army List p. 3) ● Movement: Change “4” ● Troop Type: Change “Monstrous Infantry” ● Base Size: Change “50 x 50 mm min, 60x60 mm max” ● Special Rules: Delete “Large Target” ● Special Rules: Add: ○ “Wisdom of the Old Ones Once per turn, the Slann Mage-Priest may re-roll one of the D6 when making a Casting Roll. In addition, it knows one more spell (chosen in the usual way) than is normal for their Level of Wizardry.” ○ “Palanquin This character may join a unit with the Guardians special rule despite having the Fly special rule. As long as the front rank has a minimum of 4 models they may be placed in the second rank. However, they continue to confer benefits to the unit in the form of Leadership and special rules, but may not cast Assailment spells. As long as this model is not in a fighting rank, they may cast and dispel as normal, even if its unit is engaged in Combat. For the purposes of shooting and casting spells, this model has a 360° vision arc and ignores models in the unit for drawing line of sight. In addition this character passes any Look Out Sir rolls it is required to make. If the model with this rule is unable to fit neatly into the unit, count its base size as if it were on the correct base size for all purposes for as long as it remains in the unit. IE: a Mage-Priest (50mm x 50mm) counts as having a base of 60mm x 60mm when it joins a unit of Temple Guard (30mm x 30mm). To achieve this, you may use a spacer, or simply leave room to either side of its base on the movement tray so that rear ranks can close around it correctly.” Temple Guard (Lizardmen Army List p. 6) ● Special Rule: Guardians Delete ○ “Should a friendly Slann MagePriest model that is within 3" of this unit suffer a bhit during the Shooting phase, roll a D6. On a roll of 2+, you may choose to transfer that hit and all of its effects onto this unit.”● Special Rule: Guardians Add ○ “This unit may be joined by a character with the Palanquin special rule.” Stegadons (Lizardmen Army List p. 13) ● Special Rules: Arcane Configuration, Delete ○ “If your army contains two or more Engines of the Gods” Salamander Hunting Pack (Lizardmen Army List p. 9) ● Weapon Profile: Fiery breath, Replace “Breath Weapon” with “Column of Fire” ● Weapon Profile: Note Add “If the artillery dice result is a misfire, no shots are fired] and D3 Skink Handlers are removed until there are none remaining. If no Skink Handlers remain when a misfire is rolled, the Salamander losses a wound instead.
I saw this pop up on reddit and honestly its the lightest touch ive seen in "fixing lizardmen", including my own, but its pretty bang on in the immediate issues with the core of the army. Loosing the 1+ SW requirement and slanns being no longer solo is sooo nice, im gonna try playing it locally, atleast for weekly casual games
Yeah. Super light touch. A few areas I'd like to see it go further and still be "light" -blowpipes are free -giant bow gains through & through -razordons ignore penalties to BS for multiple shots.
Basically this. If this was done then we'd be roughly back to the 8th rules for things. In that though I think razordons had no more nails. Which would be nice back but I'd take more shorts of any kind with them
Agree although for their points I think salamanders need something else even with column of fire, say for example move & shoot
Question then becomes if it had move & shoot, would it become something you always took? If that's the case, maybe that is a little much. Or it needs more points cost. I think quick shot though so it can always be used as stand and shoot would be perfect though
a) if it has column of fire and move & shoot it would appear in 0% of tournament lists. At 75 points, for a worse Kroxigor which are 2/3 the price, that do a template attack that is reasonable against infantry (which are terrible) they would be in C tier in social games, potentially B as their skirmish would help. No way would they be too good, they are the worst unit in our army list except perhaps the Slann b) template shooting attacks cannot stand & shoot.
Yeah it's really light touch, however already to put the slann in TG that test always at 3d6 and avoid saurus infantry (expensive and weak) is already a good step forwards. Like also the Stegadon in the special choice.