Discussion in 'General Chat' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Apr 16, 2015.
For all you bastards who hate Jar Jar
Only a couple of problems with that statement:
Jar Jar is not funny
Jar Jar is nothing like Han Solo
Jar Jar is nothing like Chewbacca
That is all!
Only to you
Really? You want to bet on that?
And that is just from a random poll on a site that has virtually nothing to do with Star Wars. If you start polling the legions of true die hard Star Wars fans, this result will only be more extreme.
The many stand with me, it is you that is alone in this regard!
I hope you're not inferring that 'true fans of Star Wars hate Jar Jar'. First up, there's no such thing as a 'true fan'. Certainly not based on opinions. There is no correct opinion to have that would make you any more of a fan of anything. You are either a fan of something or not. How much you like it overall will affect how much you are a fan of it, but not any opinions. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with liking or hating Jar Jar, or anything else. It's people's opinions and whether you agree with them is up to you. You can explain why you have that opinion, but at the end of the day you have to accept what they think. The same goes with opinions on characters. You may think Jar Jar is funny, you may not. But there is no correct or wrong answer. Just because the majority of people may dislike him, it doesn't make their opinion any more valid than the people who like Jar Jar. I personally don't mind him. He can be fairly annoying, but overall I don't have any real hatred for him. However, I'm not trying to shove my opinion down people's throats, angrily attacking other people's opinions and writing pieces on how my opinions is 'the correct one' and why your's isn't valid. Both sides of this debate seem to be guilty of certain degrees of this at the moment, and it's getting ridiculous.
I'm sorry if that came out of rude, but I'm getting a little sick and tired of this. You aren't necessarily doing it to the extent that I was talking about, but what started as harmless debate has turned into whether people's opinions are right or wrong and it's silly. There is no right or wrong opinion, so can we stop this tedious debate? I know it's meant to be fun, but it's gone on so long and become almost personal so I think it's best just to end it and start a new topic to talk about and debate, without debating whether it's right or wrong to have a certain opinion on a character or show or whatever. Agreed?
I wasn't inferring anything, I was outright stating that most true Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar. I stated that the results among true fans would be even more extreme... but I never said it was absolute.
I stand by my assertion that if you polled a large enough group of true Star Wars fans, a very large and significant percentage would state that they hate Jar Jar (no other Star Wars character would come even close).
In regards to my use of the term "true fan", it is only meant to exclude casual fans. A "true fan" or "die hard fan" is simply someone who is extremely passionate about it and has consumed a large quantity of the related media. Having an opposing opinion about a character does not exclude someone from being a "true fan". However, I still stand by the fact that most true fans dislike Jar Jar, but that dislike is not a prerequisite for being a true fan.
In a sense it does. Film making is a business, and the opinions of the majority of the people represents the majority of financial gain to be made... as a consequence, their opinions are more valid. This is not to misconstrue their opinions with being fact. They are still just opinions, even if they are better supported opinions.
To take it one step further, many of the laws we have are in a sense created from the ethical ideals (opinions) of the majority of the society. Why is theft, rape and murder illegal?... because the the majority of us share the opinion that these things should be illegal in our society. In the animal kingdom, all these things occur frequently and naturally.
That is not say that the masses can't be wrong or shouldn't be challenged. But in these grey areas (by grey area I mean in subjects that can't be scientifically/experimentally tested upon), the feelings of an overwhelming majority does at least count for something.
How is it personal? No personal attacks have been levied. I am certainly not insulted by any of this nor am I making any efforts to insult anyone else.
What you said isn't rude at all. I think far too many people are too easily offended. I took no offence from anything you said, even if I disagree with parts of it.
In terms of you getting sick and tired of it, just simply don't interact with it any longer if you are bored of it. Let me clarify that I'm not trying to be rude or mean with that statement. But if you are no longer obtaining enjoyment form the discussion, then why keep reading and replying to it? By the same token, just because you have grown tired of it, does not mean that others should have to stop the discussion. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your insights and comments, but if you aren't enjoying it, then might as well move onto something that you're more interested in discussing.
Your commentary on my rant is all fair enough. It was mostly written at a point when I was quite frustrated and where I was and what I was doing at the time wouldn't have helped. A lot of it as well wasn't necessarily directed at you but more generally as well. Couple of replies to your thoughts maybe offering a little more explanation to it:
1. I just wanted to make sure you weren't using it in that context. In fandoms, you tend to get a lot of forum chat with 'if you don't like/dislike X you aren't a true fan". I'm glad you agree with me that this is total rubbish. I would say that true fan isn't the best term to use to separate casual fans from diehards though in my opinion. Just because you don't know x doesn't mean you're any less of a true fan but the term larger or less of a fan may be better to use. Or less knowledgeable is probably best, seeing as you don't have to know something as well to like it as much as someone who does. Label wise, I think maybe the best ones are bigger or less of a fan for how much you like something, and more or less knowledgeable (or nerdy, if like me you don't take offence at being called a nerd) a fan for how much you know about it.
2. In the context you've given, yes the majority's opinion would be more important. But in the context of this debate in opinions, just because the majority thinks something doesn't make it correct here. It might be your view and your view might be the same as a lot of people, but that doesn't make it any more correct in the context of this debate than if your view does not line up with that majority, provided it's justified. I'm pretty sure that's not what you're saying but that's what I meant by what I wrote.
3. It's not so much you, and I'm glad you haven't felt you've been personally attacked or offended. It's more @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl that seems to be taking attacks against Jar Jar a little more personally. I'm sure it's not deliberate, and that he doesn't take those attack personally, but a few of his posts from some perspectives look a little like he is. I know they're not, but a few of them do come across a little like he's offended by all the hatred of Jar Jar in the fandom. By the way @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl, I don't mean any offence, and I know that any posts that seem personal were accidental and you were probably just caught up in the heat of the debate, along with your annoyance that Jar Jar is hated (It's fair enough, we all hate it when people disagree with us - myself included)
4. To be honest, what I'm sick and tired of is the fact that any Star Wars conversation seems to morph into this debate. If you guys aren't fussed about how this debate is going, that's completely fair enough. You shouldn't stop it just because someone who isn't even really taking part doesn't enjoy it. However, we wouldn't be able to make a new thread specifically for all this Jar Jar chit chat would we? It would be nice to have conversations about all the other stuff in Star Wars without Jar Jar eventually being brought into things. If the name Jar Jar, or at least any opinions and debates about him could stay within that thread, it would make a welcome break from the shadow he seems to cast over anything Star Wars related on this forum. The most hated character poll page could still have people saying if and why they don't like him, however, if the disagreements and any further discussion could migrate, I'd appreciate that. The debates and everything don't have to stop, but they would be out of the way of those who don't want to see them and it would free up these other threads for conversation non Jar Jar related. I think you would agree that it's hard to have a different conversation when a pre-existing debate is going on, especially one that seems to crop up everywhere eventually. So just a request, as long as it seems reasonable, but if we could have a thread specifically for Jar Jar related chit chat and move all these debates about liking him or not there, I think that would be a good idea.
Sorry if during my rant I made unfair accusations at you, and I hope you like my idea of a Jar Jar thread, and that it seems like a reasonable idea rather than just me trying to use a method of making sure I don't have to read it, intead of just not looking. That's not what's going on here, but I am a bit worried that's what it seems like. I don't mean to stop or impede the thread in any way, but a Jar Jar central could also be useful if anyone else has any opinions of him they'd like to share. I hope you agree with all my thoughts, and look forward to hearing yours
Those are fair points. I must admit that I am highly prone to derailing threads. I don't do it on purpose, but I get passionate about something and away I go. My own threads seem just as susceptible to my unwitting derailing machinations as any one else's.
Ah, yes, I'm sorry - that was mostly me I think...
As I say, I can get a bit frenzied (+1 Attack) when it comes to defending something I believe in. Although this is nothing compared to how I felt about Jar Jar when I was younger - I admit now that he was my favourite character when I was little and although he isn't my favourite now, I still get amused by what he does. You're right, mate, this is getting silly. Let us all start over.
I agree with that as well.
Exactly how I feel. Hear Hear!
See my answer to your rant earlier. I don't mean to lash out at anyone. I'm sorry. I do like to think of myself as a passionate Star Wars fan but in the process I tend to go overboard as you probably know by now.
I think it should just stop now. Perhaps we should just ditch this thread altogether and talk about Rogue One or something.
I agree with what you say - to tell you the truth I was getting a bit tired of replying all the time. Again I'm sorry if I caused offence to anyone and I will withdraw my forces if necessary.
So are we all in agreement that we either ditch all this Jar Jar or move it to another thread? If so, we'll want a new topic - @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl's suggestion of Rogue One sounds good. I don't know if this has been asked already, but what were all of your favourite parts? Mine was the space battle I think (along with that Darth Vader scene at the end, but I think with pretty much everyone it might as well be my favourite scene is the Darth Vader scene and...). It's an incredible scene, and for the first time graphics are good enough to portray a massive space battle how it likely would actually happen. The results are spectacular I think you'll agree. There are also plenty of Easter eggs in it - I can think of three just off the top of my head. If it wasn't for what came after it, it would definitely be Rogue Ones peak it terms if greatness, at least in my opinion. What are all your favourites and what were you opinions of mine?
I did love the space battle and the Vader scene (it really changed my opinion of Vader and really made him more threatening and terrifying) but I also liked Baze and Chirrut's scenes - I just think they're such good characters and it's a real shame they both died, but that's what sets Rogue One apart from the others I think, the fact that all the main heroes die. I especially enjoyed Baze's moment of being an absolute boss when avenging Chirrut's death and slaughtering Imperials right and left.
"I'm one with the Force, the Force is with me."
All the main heroes to be honest I thought were great. K-2SO in particular I thought was absolutely hilarious! The fact they all die just adds to the realism and helps show that war has a cost that movies often don't get across to you.
By far the best part...
There's definitely an argument for that being one of if not the best scene in Star Wars
Did you know that George Lucas originally intended to do a remake of Flash Gordon, and it was only when they rejected the proposal that he went on to do his own thing which was Star Wars? Imagine it, if they had made Flash Gordon instead, there would have been no Obi-Wan, Yoda or Qui-Gon Jinn, and no Rogue One team
Luckily Mr. Lucas made the better choice