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AoS Starseer and "Chosen Rolls"

Discussion in 'Rules Help' started by Vextol, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. Vextol
    Skink

    Vextol Member

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    Hello all! Long time warhammer player, zero time Seraphon player (correcting that soon) and first time poster here. I was hoping to draw on some of your knowledge.

    Now that destiny dice are the hot thing, how does the starseer (or kroak) work for cosmic herald on 'replacement dice' or 'chosen dice'. Can I wait until my opponent picks a die and then make them reroll it? The same thing comes into play when dealing with Celestant Prime and his "pick a die roll" thing. Kairos has something similar as well.

    I searched and found some talk about it but nothing real concrete.

    Also, what's the general consensus when units talk about "your army" in team play? Seraphon are particularly specific in these regards (astrolith bearer celestial conduit comes to mind). I know that Destruction models usually specify targets as "friendly" targets but not necessarily in your army. Stormcast, undead, sylvaneth and many others are the same.

    Seems like "your army" is only really used when talking about wizards and the rules of 1 and in seraphon warscrolls. How does everyone else handle team play in these regards? Can you buff your lizard friends? Can you each cast mystic shield?

    Thanks everyone!! Sorry to jump in with questions right off the bat!
     
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  2. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Welcome aboard.
    The rerolls happen after the dice has already been rolled. So if you don't like the outcome you reroll or make the opponent reroll. This works for the roll off for turn initiative as well.
    Seraphon are quite a big and swlf sufficient faction and don't have a lot of buffs for friendly factions, but you would be well off to look into collegiate arcane or eldritch council for some friendly buffs to your units.
    If you're talking about having a 2 on 2 type teams match, then the term friendly units would extend to your team member's army as well. The term Your army would be specific to your own troops.
    You can't cast multiple mystic shield in matched play, but similar spells with different names can be cast and do stack.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  3. Vextol
    Skink

    Vextol Member

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    Hmm...I'm afraid the crux of my question was missed-destiny dice and celestant prime's "orrey of celestial fates" don't roll the dice, they choose the die roll or substitute the die roll. It's similar, but not exactly the same. Can I make them "reroll" those chosen dice?

    When I asked about seraphon buffing friendly factions, I was speaking about other seraphon. For example: I am playing with seraphon units and my teammate is as well-can I buff his units? Every other faction refers to their buffs as "friendly stormcasts" or "friendly Bonesplitterz" but seraphon frequently refers to it as "in your army". I was wondering if these were synonymous or if I cannot buff friendly seraphon controlled by my teammate.

    As for mystic shield or any spell, in team play, if "in your army"'refers only to my troops, that would indicate that each team member can cast a spell one time opposed to each team can cast it one time.

    Hopefully that clears up my question!
     
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  4. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    As for the celestant prime, you choose a dice that has already been rolled and pick a new number. Example you rolled a 1 you decide it is a 6 instead. But can only choose a roll for himself. Can't choose one of your teammates or opponents rolls.

    Your army means your. Friendly seraphon could target the teammate. Celestial rights from the skink priest says Seraphon unit so could be used on your teammate. Whereas the Sunbloods command ability states your saurus, then only your saurus gain the buff.

    You and your teammaye could each cast mystic shield. The rule of 1 limits it to the specific phase.
     
  5. Vextol
    Skink

    Vextol Member

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    I think we are speaking a different language o_O

    I'm fighting celestant prime. I am not on his team. I have a starseer and an insight left so I can force a reroll.

    He does his cometstrike scepter to determine range of impact and rolls a d6. He gets a 1 and doesn't like it so he changes the die roll to a 6 as per his rule "once per turn you can change the roll of a die". Can I force him to reroll that die?

    Same goes with tzeenetch. Let's use Kairos. He isn't on my team. I have starseer and an insight so I can force a reroll. Kairos wants to cast gift of change. Instead of rolling, he uses two destiny dice-a 6 and a 2 - to make 8 so he can cast the spell. Can I force him to reroll that 6 even though he didn't really 'roll' it?

    Thanks!
     
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  6. m0gstar
    Temple Guard

    m0gstar Well-Known Member

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    Good question. I'd be tempted to say no because his rule states he gets to choose the die result. Unless his rule states "you can choose the result of the dice roll" in which it sounds like you could because it technically was a roll.

    Interesting question you bring up. Would love to hear others' take on it.
     
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  7. SpringStingray
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    SpringStingray New Member

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    The wording on the Celestant Prime says you can "change the roll of one dice [...] to the roll of your choice.", so I would claim that it's still a roll. After that I would say that you can kind of battle over the one dice roll if you want to:

    1. Opp rolls a D3 and rolls "3" for his Cometstrike Sceptre Mortal Wounds.
    2. You use an Insight to force a re-roll and he rolls a 1.
    3. He uses Orrery of Celestial Fates and "rolls" a 3 again.
    4 You use another Insight etc.

    Beyond that you can use some MtG rules and claim that the Active Player (guy whose turn it is) has to choose first then each Non-Active Player in turn order makes their choices, but thanks to the way that AoS rules have been written there's no real structure to it.

    INB4 you're rolling a D6 against every opponent to decide rules that you don't agree on in every game.
     
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  8. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    No you can't as the "die" has had a reroll, you forcing him to reroll again would be 2 rerolls of the "die" therefore it's illegal.
     
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  9. SpringStingray
    Skink

    SpringStingray New Member

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    Ugh, the rules in this game suck.
     
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  10. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    The way I 'm reading it you can as it says you can reroll any dice and these dices have just been chosen otherwise. A really good question to be asked
     
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  11. LordRibbit
    Temple Guard

    LordRibbit Well-Known Member

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    with the new tzeentch dice thing, they can change a dice roll to what they like, so it doesn't count as a re-roll which means you can force your opponent to re-roll after he has changed his dice
     
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  12. LordRibbit
    Temple Guard

    LordRibbit Well-Known Member

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    star seer will be seeing a lot more love after the new tzeentch battletome has come out!
     
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  13. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    So the new Tzeentch rule is he can just change the dice to a 6 if he wants? that is a powerful ability so you defo want to have re-rolls available.

    Just to clear up though you can't reroll a dice that has already been rerolled can you?
     
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  14. LordRibbit
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    LordRibbit Well-Known Member

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    One of the new rules yes he can but it's a 'change' not a re-roll so you can make him roll it again. However you can never re-roll a re-roll
     
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  15. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    I hope the model that has this rule is limited to one per pitched battle.
     
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  16. SpringStingray
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    SpringStingray New Member

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    You're getting confused Crowsfoot, it's not THAT overpowered:

    Master of Destiny: After set-up but before rolling for first turn, roll 9 dice and bank them as "destiny dice" that you can use in place of casting, unbinding, run, charge, hit, wound, save, damage, or battleshock rolls. Though you must use one destiny dice per dice, so to completely control a charge, you must use 2 destiny dice. At any moment, your army can't have more than 9 dice.
    So you don't get to choose the face of the die, you have a selection of values you can use.
     
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  17. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Ahhh
     
  18. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Okay now I am up to date, Kairos Fate weaver, oracle of eternity you change the results of one dice roll, same for the celestant prime. Once they have used the ability yes you can force a re-roll as they have changed the value but not re-rolled. Declare it after they have used their ability so they cannot use it again.

    Kairos Fateweaver- Oracle of Eternity- Once per game you can change a single dice roll to the result of your choosing.

    Celestant Prime- Orrery of Celestial Fates- Once per turn, you can change the roll of one of the dice for the Celestant prime, to a roll of your choice, before applying any modifiers.
     
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  19. m0gstar
    Temple Guard

    m0gstar Well-Known Member

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    From wording, it would sound like you can force the rerolls then, at least to me.

    Rule of one says that you can never re roll the same die twice. Which sounds like in the scenario you could force a reroll on a chosen destiny die, and force him to use another one, but couldn't force him to change the second result because that die has already had is reroll.

    Interesting situation. Hope they give an official ruling to it :)
     
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  20. MerciaBear
    Cold One

    MerciaBear Active Member

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    Seems to me a chosen dice isnt a re roll. That would annoy the hell out of people whove used a powerful spell to choose a specific dice rool :)
     
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