So I have 45 temple guard sitting un-built that I really want to find a home for. Are they just worse warriors at this point? Is there a list that wants more then 5 in a realm shaper to babysit a slaan?
I think guard are great for protecting Slann and Kroak. It is possible to run blocks of them, but you're right in that they're just over-costed Saurus Warriors.
Do you see more then the 5 man min being fielded any time soon? I kinda want to do a 20 man unit (just to paint) but I need to get some other stuff done that will actually see play first.
I think a 10-20 block of Saurus Guard can work, but I would much rather field 40 Saurus warriors for less points. That is Guard's main draw back.
That is where I am at as well. 100 / 5 vs 90 / 10. 270 gets me 30 warriors. 300 gets me 15 guard. Same wounds, 30 points more. Maybe 2 x block of 10 with a 30-40 man warrior unit can make a good anvil. But that is a HUGE amount of points.
- Main advantage here is that Guards are always attack with 2 3+/3+/-1/1 and SW lost their second attack when down to 14 models (which is in a 30 models squad could be pretty fast). - Due to a low model count, SG are also have an advantage - you will be able to squeeze every attack out of them(less models, easy to position and use every model to attack) and you can use many abilities on them, that are "wholly within" (e.g. add Astrolith Bearer and enjoy 6+ FNP on wholly 12"). - They're less likely to suffer heavily under mortal wounds (1 SG model - 2 wounds, 1 SW model - 1 wound. e.g. 3 MW will leave you with 1 model lost and 1 model still standing, that can contribute to attack, while with SW it's 3 models down) Coalesced SG are pretty scary actually. Under Koatl's Claw they get +1 to hit on charge (now they have 2+). Buff them with one of these: ScarVet's ability (6+ to hit is 2 hits), Sunblood's (+1 to wound) or Starpriest's Staff (on 6s to wound is additional mortal wounds). In the next months these will all be tested and I will personally play SG (cuz I have 30 of them and 80 of Saurus Warriors and I'm gonna play heavily on Coalesced Saurus army). I have an idea of running a block of 20 SG with Slann behind them. Since Slann have 3" range he can easily attack behind wall of SG, buffing them and shooting meteors and other magic. And if anyone wants to kill my Slann, SG will take all his wounds and MW.
at witch point they have the same amount of attacks as 7 guard. if you start with 20 warriors and 10 guard 180 and 200 points respectivly the warriors have the same save and wounds as the guard do but 20 adishanal attacks but without rend. if you drop them down below 15 they have the same defense as guard and the same damage output with clubs. the only thing guard have over warriors is the ability to tank wounds for the slann in every other way warriors are ether better or the same
I get what you saying, but managing 20 models on the table is a little bit harder than 10. Even with spears it's not always a 40 attacks each. I know, because I play them in Meeting Engagement (10 SG and 20 SW with spears was my bulk of a force). 6 warriors could die very fast (shooting, spells and so on) - only 6 failed safes(or MW) is needed to reduce their effectiveness significantly. While using 20 SW with Clubs is better it's still 20 attacks (maybe more, maybe less - it's all situational) and still there is a high chance of losing 6 models and lose second attack. While guards don't have such things - always 2 attacks each on 3+/3+. While I was writing this it came to my attention that we're talking from different perspectives. As I understand, you're looking on SG from 2000 pts game perspective. In that way a block 40 SW is better than 20 SG (still I think SG are durable due to a 2 wound and been less afraid to MWs). While I look from the smaller games perspective - like ME (since the last half a year that's the only format I've been playing regularly).
I think that is close to where I am at right now. They look great in smaller games. Maybe if they get a battalion that is not 3x units there will be a place for them in bigger lists in the future. I am just getting started with Seraphon so I have a TON to paint and test. Have a scar vet on carno and almost 30 warriors painted (9 more to go) then its on to knights and a few heroes. My 1k list will not have guard, but I am looking at 5-10 for my 1.5k list. Mainly because I have 45 of them and I like the models. I think I want to test a list like this at 1.5k : ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Seraphon) [1,480pts] ++ + Leader + Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur [250pts]: [Koatl's Claw] Dominant Predator, Eviscerating Blade, General Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur [210pts]: 1. Blade of Realities, [Koatl's Claw] Dominant Predator, Celestite Warblade Skink Starpriest [120pts] Skink Starseer [140pts] + Battleline + Saurus Guard [100pts]: 5 Saurus Guards, Saurus Guard Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer Saurus Guard [300pts]: 3x 5 Saurus Guards, Saurus Guard Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer Saurus Knights [100pts]: 5 Saurus Knights, Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer Saurus Knights [200pts]: 2x 5 Saurus Knights, Celestite Warspear, Saurus Knight Alpha, Stardrake Icon Bearer, Wardrummer + Allegiance + Allegiance . Allegiance: Seraphon . . Coalesced: Koatl's Claw + Game Options + Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost Points Variation: - 500 + Realm of Origin + Realm of Origin + Malign Sorcery + Bound Endless Spell: Emerald Lifeswarm [60pts] + Scenery + Scenery: Realmshaper Engine ++ Total: [1,480pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe
Guard have been reduced to extra wounds for your Slann. Without their buffs or battalion I don’t see a situation where I want them over warriors.
Aside from protecting the slann/being an upgrade to the slann (just have them move as 1) guard have only 1 use and that is that they are the only battleline unit we have who can function relativly independently. They're not as reliant on synergies and as such you can save your CP & spellcasts to buff other units. Don't get me wrong they're not amazing unbuffed, but at least they're functional. Which is more than you can say for an unsupported msu unit of say warriors or skinks in most situations. imho, they're fairly decent supporting units who can go and grab an objective or deal with a deepstriking assasin or something, and for example are a fairly decent summon (at least in their bracket... summoning in general is still a bit iffy till we have a feeling for the number of CCP generated) Though they should really include a battalion for them. Imho, the sunclaw battalion should have the option of either guard or warriors.
It def feels like they had something in mind for the guard, but it did not come through in the book. I like the idea of a core of 30 warriors with 2 units of 10-15 guard. Would love to be able to do a battalion with that. I picked up a lot about a month before the book came out that had 45 unbuilt guard in it. So I have a huge incentive to make them work . I am def going to try to 30 warrior + 2x 10 -15 and a 20 guard + 2 x 20 warrior list. I have a few other "odd" lists that I want to test out from the lot. I have 4x carno kit (1 is a trog, 1 a scarvet) that I am trying to make work as well. So I have lots to keep me interested for the next few years.
To be honest the biggest issue is probably the eternal starhost & the eternity warden. The warden is just flat out pointless (guards are literally better in every concievable way), the battalion is too expensive (and the templehost variant is terrible, at least the starhost has a decent effect...) & the guard have not other battalion to go into so they lack that crucial battalion buff.. On that note, why are there even units without (useable) battalions (eternal starhost doesn't count cuz too large )? It seems weird to not at least include every unit in at least one battalion (same goes for the warden, the starseer & the slann for that matter).
I was really hoping for Guard and the Eternity Warden to become a great Anvil unit. Able to take a lot of damage and swing back if needed. But more so to prevent enemies from moving too much. Wardens command ability really bothers me, considering it's a worse version of other Sauras heros, basically. Something like improving the save characteristic or adding to save rolls for guard units would be great. Maybe he could be giving them a FNP passively when they're wholly within 12" of him+Slann. I like guard. But they're expensive warriors for not much more than a Slann upgrade.
I don't get the warden, the only additional rule he has over the regular guard is his command ability and it's a fairly terrible command ability. He's not even a better guard than a msu of guards.
A block of 20 guard is 400 pts. A block of 40 warriors is 320. Feels like that tells you everything you need right there. They did not intend for guard to be fielded in huge blocks like warriors. A block of 10 guard is 200, 20 warriors is 180. Both: * 4+ save * 5+/4+ jaws * 5" move Guard : * 2 wounds * 1", 3+ / 3+ , -1 , 2 attacks Warriors with spear: * 2" 4+/3 Warriors with club: * 1" 4+/3+, -1 You get the same number of weapon attacks vs wounds, but you get 1 more jaw attack under coalesed for warriors. 20 warriors gives you + 20 extra jaw attacks to the guards +10. So 20 points gets you a +1 hit with the main weapon and the ability to soak more then 5 wounds and not drop your attacks in 1/2. Its all a matter of if you want to run Sunclaw or not really. Under Sunclaw warriors get a -1 to jaws or weapon. Out side of Sunclaw, they might have a place as a middle of the field unit. With emerald swarm they become very hard to remove. If you have a list that wants to push a Slaan forward, they will def have a place.