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9th Age Testing out fantasy- Which edition?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by Lizerd, Jun 10, 2019.

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  1. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    so after playing some AoS and having some fun, I found fantasy battles. I at first thought: nope not doing this. But then I remembered; if I am crazy enough to learn battletech I can do this. And so I looked around and now want to try a game or two. In particular I need help selecting which edition to try out, both when was your personal favorite era and when were lizardmen most enjoyable.
     
  2. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Salamander

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say that 8th is most enjoyable, but then again I barely played 7th edition since 8th came just about the time as I got into the hobby :p

    If you play Lizardmen with 7th edition rules in 8th the Slann are ridiculous, but all things Saurus in our 8th edition book is a bit better than in the 7th edition, and with 8th edition you could potentially take even more Carnosaurs (which should be reason enough to play 8th if you were me :D).

    You must have someone to play with, what do they think?
     
  3. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Lots of carnosaurs? How many? You got my attention to 8th edition, but I can’t find the lizardmen army book :( any pdf locations I could find it?

    If not I can try for 7th edition as it also looks pretty cool.

    My issue is I only really have a few people who might be in the realm of interest for fantasy. The people at my local GW play AoS or 40K. I am probably among the better players for AoS but never dabbled in 40k kinda rules my GW out.At school there is aren’t many warhammer players, and most people who would be willing to try would almost certainly be annihilated.
     
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  4. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Salamander

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, depends on the game size of course, but the gist of it is that there are 5 categories: Core, Special, Rare, Heroes and Lords. You can take Carnosaurs in Heroes and Lords, and if you play buy the last FAQ that was released, those two sections can be 75% of your army.
    In a 1000 point game that would be at most 2 Carnosaurs, but at 1500 you could have 4, though at that point you are going very bare bones with their equipment and upgrades; You do want at least one upgrade for your Carnosaurs (unless playing against 'Immune to Psychology') and that is 'Bloodroar'.

    I might be able to help you out with that.
     
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  5. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    I like lots of carnosaurs, an op af ones. Kinda sad now that I realized I kitted mine out for AoS. Time to some 5 more :D

    Thanks for helping me find an 8th edition pdf of the lizards
     
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  6. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Salamander

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    I apologize, I was a bit too fast there with saying you could take 4 Carnosaurs, since you do also need to have some core units :oops:
    Still, you can take 3 Carnosaurs at 1500 points.

    You mean oval bases?
     
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  7. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they all are on ovals, it might work but not optimally
     
  8. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Skink Priest

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    I play 7th and 8th, and both have their merits and drawbacks. Both are a lot of fun, but I’ll highlight some of the pros and cons of each:

    7th pros:
    • No horde rule (see below)
    • Cannons were arguably less broken
    • Charges allowed units to go first in melee like in AoS - subsequent round of combat were then resolved by initiative order.
    • Magic items were arguably more thematic and realistic in 7th, with a smaller pool of common magic items available to everyone and each army having a larger pool of unique magic items only they could use. In 8th this was reversed with a larger pool of common magic items and smaller pools of unique ones (except Dwarfs who kept their runic magic and got a few unique magic items at the expense of not being allowed to use the common magic items), which in my view at least is less realistic.

    7th cons:
    • 7th had this weird thing called ‘unit strength’ that was a bloated way of trying to resolve combat resolutions in the case of draws as far as I can remember. I never bothered with it myself because it was a bit of an overcomplexity and a headache to use.
    • If you choose 7th, some units usable in 8th and AoS can’t be taken in your army (specifically Troglodons, Bastiladons and Ripperdactyls for Lizardmen).

    8th pros:
    • Extended charging distances - in 8th even Dwarfs could charge as far as 15”!
    • Hardback, full-colour army books for the first time - believe me, when these first came out in 8th we were like “Woah!” because all previous editions featured softback army books that were black-and-white except for the model showcase.
    • All units got to fight in an additional rank - now the second rank could attack as well as the first even if the unit wasn’t armed with spears.
    • Magic was supercharged in this edition, meaning you could quite easily blow the living nargle-fodder out of your enemy with a simple magic spell - indeed the principles of AoS endless spells originated in 8th Edition remains in play spells.

    8th cons:
    • One of the things I like least about 8th was the introduction of the horde rule, which gives units 10 or more models wide an extra rank’s worth of attacks, and the reason I dislike this so much is that while it does make sense with chaff troops and allows them to be made decently useful, it can also be used unthematically on elite troops like Saurus to make massive killer deathstar units. This costs a lot of points but is a powergamer tactic that I frown upon nonetheless. The lack of this rule in 7th Edition made this less viable so that the disadvantages of limited flexibility and far greater points costs outweighted its benefits.
    • Cannons were overpowered in this edition - GW even gave them a rule that allowed them to kill both a monster and it’s rider in a single shot, which is just ridiculous.
    • All rounds of combat were resolved in initiative order, even if a unit charged, which meant any unit like Saurus with a low Initiative score had a natural disadvantage.
    • Supercharged magic also allows the enemy to blow the living nargle-fodder out of you with a simple magic spell.
    I must also add as a warning that Warriors of Chaos are an extremely broken army in both 7th and 8th Edition Fantasy, which is a shame because every other army is balanced except them. If you have a Warriors of Chaos player in your group, expect dirty powergaming tactics and army builds aplenty - the only way you can try to beat him is with luck and redirection tactics. If not, then feel free to have fun with this otherwise awesome game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  9. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Well @ASSASSIN_NR_1 gave me the stuff for 8th edition and looking over it the game looks pretty cool. Luckily for me I wont have to deal with cannons as I don’t intend on playing a large game. I also don’t have to deal with warriors of chaos so that also is a big plus :D
     
  10. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Skink Priest

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    Just to warn you, Cannons are pretty cheap - certainly Dwarf Cannons are only 120 points without artillery runes, so they can still appear even in 500 point games.

    That is great news - you’re free to enjoy the game as fully as you like without too much worry of OP opponents!

    Great to see another fantasy player appear, especially an AoS player coming into the Fantasy scene - if you have any problems, either post a thread in the Fantasy section here or, if it’s more general and less Lizardmen-specific, feel free to sign up to the Eighth Edition For Life forum - I’m a member there (username is lordofskullpass) along with many of the fantasy ‘old guard’ you see around here, and like Lustria it’s a very friendly community, as every new fantasy player is most welcome because it helps to keep this magnificent game alive.
     
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  11. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Actually this is a very important question: can I play fantasy with round bases or do I need to do rebasing?
     
  12. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Salamander

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    Not really no since some rules break, and base to base contact becomes messy.
    It is not ideal to rebase your army, especially since I assume you want to play AOS as well. I would advocate for using square bases for AOS, since one can then easily play fantasy and AOS, but alas.
    A possible solution, which is not ideal either, is to scale all the base sizes for fantasy, and then find a way to make the bases with holes in them, so the model's round bases fit inside the square bases; In this scenario you would ideally scale every value related to distance, but that might get impractical regarding table size, but still the option is there.

    Alternatively you could make a new army for fantasy, but that's quite expensive, so again: not ideal.

    If you really want to, I guess you could try with round bases, just to get a feel for it, and then decide what to do.
     
  13. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Alright, I know what I am doing this summer. I will need to find all the bases and sizes, and this probably going to be really difficult as the ppl who help me out will be off but I should be able to do this.
     
  14. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Salamander

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    So which approach have you decided on?

    The base sizes are easy enough, just ask and I can provide them.
     
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  15. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Alright, I am leaning towards ripping off the round ones and putting down the square ones. I doubt I can do it now as I have finals to study for and do but with summer I should have the time.

    And in terms of bases just send me the dimensions, please don’t ship stuff to me. You have done more than I could ever ask for :D
     
  16. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Salamander

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    Good luck then, both with the base project and the finals ;)

    Allright allright I'll cancel the shipment then :p
    I'll provide the base sizes very soon then, see if I can't make a neat list out of it, and not too much of a mess :)
     
  17. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Skink Priest

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    Skinks are 20mm x 20mm and Saurus of all stripes are 25mm x 25mm - that should get you started
     
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  18. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Time to go order some in a few days
     
  19. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Salamander

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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  20. Lizerd
    Troglodon

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Words fail me for how much I can thank you.
     
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