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AoS To horde or anti horde, that is the question?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by darren watson, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. darren watson
    Chameleon Skink

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    Ghb2 is here and it seems we have a huge boost to our long suffering scaled heroes. With massive boosts to huge units and formations taking a pounding points wise, my initial thoughts are the meta will move away from shooting and mortal wounds towards horde armies (seen lists with 150 murder host blood letters gaining some attention amongst the games testers as nign on unbeatable).

    I always try to go against the grain and have had a few sleepless nights pondering how not to jump on the horde band wagon. .

    With a local event coming up on the 16th of next month I'm going to turn to a previously under used unit. The humble Razordon.

    Played my first Ghb2 game today with the following against SCE (not horde but my mates fav army).

    I ran with:

    General Kroak
    Astrolith with the prism
    Starpriest with auto unbind (he has no spell caster but I didn't want to tailor my list to his).

    10 skinks boltspitters and shields x 3

    6 Ripperdactyls
    4 Razodons
    4 Razodons
    3 Razodons
    3 Razodons

    Shadowstrike

    100 points for summoning

    It worked so well I'm ordering 10 Razodons tomorrow.

    28 d6 shots a turn with rerolls near an Astrolith and bonus shots if you roll a 4 up when a unit charges is strong Af. Teleporting these guys is batshitting crazy.

    I'll let you know how it gets on
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
  2. Mune
    Skink

    Mune Member

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    Well been able to teleport just 1 unit, without handlers and the astro doenst sound that good.
    How did lord k work with the vortex/spellrange fix?
     
  3. darren watson
    Chameleon Skink

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    Kroak teleports now, teleport near arcane terrain if poss and in the middle of the board, happy days.

    Initially deploy deep, all dons near astro if you are going second against swift opposition. Skinks bubble wrap and the strike ones move up to increase your bubble.

    Going first you can hit a flank hard with Kroak's spells 4 teleported dons and 6 Ripperdactyls.

    I see the Astrolith bonus more for Kroak early game and move to support dons later.

    Only one game but it felt like there was a great deal of control. Looking forward to my next game Wednesday!
     
  4. Meatgrinder
    Skink

    Meatgrinder Member

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    Honestly I think bastillodons will be musthaves in the new meta. Their ability to deal with both hordes and multiwound armoured targets makes them excellent allrounders. Every list I make I end up taking two.

    Im currently looking at a fangs list supported by two bastis as a onedrop or a thunderquake and shadowstrike with a slann as a threedrop.
     
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  5. darren watson
    Chameleon Skink

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    My only fear with bastiladons is that max sized units will be everywhere. They beat them eventually but not quickly enough. 7 dons are the same points as a basti and deal more damage. The range isn't an issue as the scenarios are heavily objective focused.

    These are my initial thoughts after reading through the book.. I could well be wrong. Games and time will tell ☺
     
  6. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Funny that you mention Razordon because just now I wanted to make a thread to discuss whether those rock the game right now. I think they might, with the available bonuses!

    ....sooooo expensive though (money, not points)....
     
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  7. darren watson
    Chameleon Skink

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    I've just seen.. I need 10 more for that list.. will be trawling trading sites and eBay tomorrow!
     
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  8. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    really tempted to proxy those because I don't play official tournaments anway.
    Any ideas?
     
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  9. darren watson
    Chameleon Skink

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    Jurassic Park toy dinos, the ones from the original with the frills? Mind you, they'd be better for the Salamander..

    Empty cavalry bases and your imagination?

    Some sort of spiked dino toy of reasonable quality must exist somewhere?
     
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  10. Tizianolol
    Chameleon Skink

    Tizianolol Active Member

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    @darren watson
    With kroak you can teleport more then one unit every turn?
     
  11. crazyhorse1321
    Jungle Swarm

    crazyhorse1321 New Member

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    No. He is a named character and thus can not have a command trait
     
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  12. darren watson
    Chameleon Skink

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    Very true, first turn he's teleported into a decent postion. Take an objective or near some arcane terrain preferably. Follow up turns bring up the dons or Astrolith depending on how the game is going.
    Once is still so much better than Kroak had it before ☺
     
  13. Mark Sinosich
    Cold One

    Mark Sinosich Active Member

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    Touching on the question: Too horde or not too horde?

    Friends of mine are debating the same thing, they are looking at formerly crazy builds of simple units only, dropping characters in favor of pure numbers, dropping ranged in favor of pure melee bodies/wounds on the board.

    Why is this now possible? No surprise as it's already been mentioned.

    1. Massive Regiments - More bodies for cheaper
    2. Teleport/Alpha Strike/Other fast moving mechanics - Melee units can make it across the board faster, more intact and with more models than ever before.

    Watch out for those Hero based objectives though! ;) .. Nah... Just kill their heroes and tie 0-0!
     
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  14. darren watson
    Chameleon Skink

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    I saw this list that's being banded round by the American play testers as nigh on unbeatable

    Blood Secrator
    Bloodthrone
    30 letters
    30 letters
    30 letters
    30 letters
    20 letters
    10 letters
    5 hounds
    5 hounds
    MurderHost

    Preparing to compete with this should be able to build something that deals with most hordes..

    Terrifying stuff lol
     
  15. Mark Sinosich
    Cold One

    Mark Sinosich Active Member

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    Yes that's pretty much one of the horde army options my friends and I were talking about. MW spamming Bloodletters. Fun for everyone!

    Do you think mass Skink spam could win? It would be frustrating to play with and against! ><
     
  16. darren watson
    Chameleon Skink

    darren watson Well-Known Member

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    They don't kick out enough damage for me. They are a nuisance and my thoughts are they should be used this way and not relied on.
    A savvy player will attack these guys first before they can retreat and they die in droves. That does allow you to get some hits in with your main melee units but I don't think the pay off will be worth it.
    That being said, I'm trying out lists with 160 skinks in them to experiment with to be sure ☺
     
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  17. Mark Sinosich
    Cold One

    Mark Sinosich Active Member

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    160.. even 200 still leaves a large chunk of points to spend on other fun stuff. that is a ridiculous amount of bodies/wounds to get through.
     
  18. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Wow that's quite a list!
    I wonder if an Eternal Starhost could deal with it. They hopefully don't get many letters in range so the mortal wounds would not hit that often? Not sure...
    And then perhaps Stegadons with Sunfire Throwers? Two of them and an EotG+Kroxigor in a Thunderquake to get that healing.

    Also maybe try to kill the bloodsecrator early. I assume it will be bubble wrapped though....
    Kroak and a Basti will do lots of extra damage against them. Summon Starlight is also good against demons.

    Hmmm....
     
  19. Seraphage
    Bastiladon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Sayl finally got balanced so they're definitely way more outs than it used to
     
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  20. Aginor
    Skar-Veteran

    Aginor Well-Known Member

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    Ok here's a list.

    The Stegadon is armed with Sunfire Throwers and the Bastiladon with the Solar engine. But you could also play two Stegadons and keep the Basti out.

    Tactic: use Kroak to snipe the big units and the Bloodsecrator. Use the items and starlight to do damage and to debuff the letters so they cannot roll sixes that easily.
    Kroak has to be near the front line to do his extra damage. The Basti with the bonuses should be able to do some damage, and those Sunfire Throwers are pretty great against hordes as well. Skinks just try to be in the way and stay alive as long as possible.
    Kroak can help the EotG to do some damage.
    Kroxigor are also good against hordes, but you could also play some Salamanders or Razordons.
    Thunderquake helps the big ones to stay alive, especially near Kroak.
    Everyone should stand together in order to keep the Bloodletterw from swarming anyone.
    Since Khorne means melee an Astrolith Bearer would be nice but so don't see how it would fit in. Maybe drop the Warden and replace the EotG with a Stegadon? Could work...


    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Lord Kroak (450)
    - General
    Engine of the Gods (220)
    Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - Artefact: Coronal Shield
    Skink Priest (80)
    - Priestly Trappings
    - Artefact: Prism of Amyntok
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    3 x Kroxigor (160)
    Stegadon (240)
    Bastiladon (280)
    Thunderquake Starhost (170)

    Total: 2000/2000
     
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