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AoS What am I missing about Engine of the Gods?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by tag8833, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. tag8833
    Jungle Swarm

    tag8833 New Member

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    It looks expensive and unreliable, and yet I see it in alot of lists.
    6-9 is good, but really swingy
    10-13 is very situational
    14-17 is usually bad. Do you auto-lose if you don't have reserve points?
    18 is great, but hard to roll.

    What is the thing I'm missing? It just seems too widely variable (even with a Slann) to be relied upon.
     
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  2. LordRibbit
    Temple Guard

    LordRibbit Well-Known Member

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    It can be fun to use, but I tend to take it with a slann and a starseer. Put curse of fates on it, with the extra dice and re-rolls it gives you quite a bit of control over it and increases the chance of rolling an 18 to around 19%.

    It can be quite good in cc too!
     
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  3. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Pretty much this.
    An EotG without a Slann is too unreliable to be of any real use IMO, but with a Slann it gets a lot better.
    And yes, rules as written means that 14-17 is crap in matched play.
     
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  4. LordRibbit
    Temple Guard

    LordRibbit Well-Known Member

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    And the d6 mortal wounds doesn't need line of sight, get for sniping small support characters who tend to have 4-6 wounds
     
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  5. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Meh, it's not just unreliable, it's outright unusable without a slann or curse of fates. The effects vary too much in what they do and the requirements they have to work to amount to anything consistently. It's entirely possible (and even quite likely) to have a game where none of the procs are actually effect. If they'd at least made it so all the procs had similar functions and restrictions itd be a hell of lot more useable.
     
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  6. tag8833
    Jungle Swarm

    tag8833 New Member

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    So lets say I have a Slann and an EotG. And for my Engine, I roll 4, 5, 5, 6. Which isn't all that bizarre of a roll on 4 dice. I've got no reserve points. Did I just lose the game?
     
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  7. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    No you don't lose the game. The EotG just does nothing.
     
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  8. tag8833
    Jungle Swarm

    tag8833 New Member

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    The way I figure it, most of the time, there are 2 useful results: 6-9 and 18.

    If you've got No Slann, and no Curse of Fates, your odds are:
    6-9: 32.87% MW: 1.15
    18: 0.46%
    Either: 33.33%

    If you've got Curse of Fates, but no Slann:
    6-9: 48.15% MW: 1.81
    18: 1.85%
    Either: 50%

    Slann, but no Curse of Fates:
    6-9: 60.49% MW: 2.11
    18: 1.62%
    Either: 62.11%

    Slann, and Curse of Fates:
    6-9: 72.69% MW: 2.65
    18: 5.79%
    Either: 78.47%

    So even in the best of scenarios, you EotG's is going to be worthless 1 in 5 turns. In an optimum scenario, the Mortal Wounds you can expect it to generate per turn are 2.65. That feels pretty underwhelming for how many points you've committed to it, though that might be understating it somewhat, because the 10-13 result can occasionally contribute, and it is hard to gauge the value of the 18 result.
     
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  9. tag8833
    Jungle Swarm

    tag8833 New Member

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    To compare it to a Bastillidon's Searing beam. If you use Curse of Fates on the Bastillidon, it will do more damage to anything w/ a 3+ or worse save. EotG out performs Bastillidon's Searing beam vs things that have a 2+ Save.
     
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  10. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    In practise a bastillidon will probably still be better even against a 2+ as its far less likely to completly fizzle, while also having a higher potential when the dice favor you. An EoTG is quite likely to do nothing whatsoever, and wasting an entire turn will be quite costly. A bastillidon is far less likely to waste an entire turn worth of attacks.
     
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  11. Killer Angel
    Skink Priest

    Killer Angel Well-Known Member

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    I usually use the Engine only if i run the thunderquake starhost.
     
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  12. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Actually I would take a Troglodon if you play a Thunderquake without a Slann. It has the same save, more wounds, it is cheaper and moves faster, has more range on the ranged attack, debuffs enemy bravery (which is probably worth more than rerolling Skink Battleshocks) and it isn't much worse in melee.
     
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  13. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    An advantage of a EoTG here though is that its a hero, and the rest in the thunderquake host isn't. The troglodon cant take artifacts right?
     
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  14. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    Oh that's correct. That might actually tip the balance a bit more toward the EotG.
     
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  15. Slanntastic
    Skink

    Slanntastic Member

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    I have been running the EotG because it seems to be (other than Kroak) one of our only options for significant mortal wound output. If you aren't taking Kroak or the Engine what do you do about those tough units (2+ save, anything with mirror shield, etc.)?

    I usually take the Slann with Vast Intellect to make it work but when I do that I am missing out on the 2nd teleport, which is a tough pill to swallow.
     
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  16. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    The only other way to kill such tough units is massive shooting, preferably with rend (Bastis, Salamanders or Razordons reasonably close), or magic, and I occasionally used Terradons with decent effect.
    So yeah the EotG's mortal wounds are very useful in the current meta, I just wish it was a tiny bit more reliable without a Slann.
     
  17. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Get a bastillidon with ark of sotek. More reliable than an EoTG, less likely to die, and unlike the EoTG it actually fullfills a clear role allowing you to build your army around it being reliable.

    Also, terradons are vastly underrated, and again way more reliable. Only issue would be when they face range-heavy armies they might get blown up before being able to drop their payload.

    Apart from that mortal wounds are limited to kroak and our wizards (god we need some extra spells...) and Knights, and with teleports Knights might actually be a threat as you can cycle charge each turn now.

    Which leaves rend which we have on:
    Every saurus hero.
    Slanns
    Saurus guard
    Salamanders
    Everything that's bigger than a cold one

    To be honest, we have a surprising amount of rend now that I look at it. And that's without battalions (e.g. sunclaw or a firelance) that could help. To be honest, outside of re-rollable 2+ saves with healing nonsense we probably shouldn't be as screwed as we appear at first glance...
     
  18. tag8833
    Jungle Swarm

    tag8833 New Member

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    This is the sort of information I'm hoping for. I've been playing Sylvaneth, and am just starting up Seraphon. However, in my time playing Sylvaneth, the main source for 2+ saves is other Sylvaneth, and against them, 2 mortal wounds scaresly makes a difference, because they have heal mechanics that can heal faster than that.

    But, my meta is incredibly small, Does the wider game have alot of units with 2+ saves, where 2 1/2 mortal wounds pert turn will make a difference?

    ETA: My meta is so small, I've never played a destruction or death army. Lots of Order, a few Chaos.
     
  19. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    Terradons my friend. 9 of those pretty fellas won me a big tournament ! :)
     
  20. Canas
    Skar-Veteran

    Canas Well-Known Member

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    Sylvaneth are a fairly heavy on the healing I suppose. Most others tends to not have as much healing so 2.5 mortal wounds per turn actually sticks. However, such a low number of stable mortal wounds is unlikely to ever win you the match on its own, or even to kill the intended target. If you could bring say 4 EoTG then it might get somewhere, but seeing as you're unlikely to ever bring more than 1 it's unlikely to be more effecient than bringing say a starpriest and having him spam arcane bolt if all you really care about is the mortal wounds.

    In comparison look at Kroak. He has 3 attacks that deal mortal wounds, as opposed to 1, has better range, is more reliable, is more difficult to kill, 2 of his 3 attacks affect multiple targets and can be put on a balewind to increase every single one of these aspects even further. That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than anything the EoTG really has to offer offensivly.

    Minor sidenote, why isn't the EoTG mounted by a starpriest or starseer or some other magical skink wizard? It feels like that thing should be a wizard.If nothing else, why isn't it mounted by a skink oracle or skink alpha like the troglodon or stegadon? Why do the skinks that ride it not do anything other than throw very ineffective javalins at people. Also, why is the stegadon carrying an EoTG weaker than a normal stegadon? the EoTG makes ver little sense the more you look at it..
     
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