Tutorial Writers' Wretreat or Crytics' Crypt? (love needed)

So far, from what I've encountered, it's all about word count. Everything I have submitted has been given a word limit and most require the document be sent in rtf (rich text format). I believe Baen... (or was it Penguin Publishing?) required a novel to be at least 80k words. Most publishers have their own requirements posted on their website for submissions and some are more picky than others. If you are submitting, make sure you know how to put in page numbers as well as a header (for some reason I always struggle to figure out how to get both on without having it look all out of sorts). None of them allow you to go over the limit though. I made an inquiry to Parsek Inc about going just a few words over and they responded by telling me that any submissions over the limit would be disregarded. Another thing to watch out for is sending the same story to multiple publishers. Several explain that this is a quick way to get put on their blacklist. They do not like it Sam I Am, they do not like multiple submissions to different publishers... and ham?

I don't really think there is a requirement for how long a chapter needs to be, just as long as you keep the reader's interest. For example, earlier this year I discovered the Faithful and the Fallen series (one of the best things I've read since David Gemmell died) and the author's chapters range from a few pages to a dozen or more, but the flow never stops.

In more recent news, I got another rejection today! Woohoo!

 

Yes, Arli is the lizard I meant.

Is the research paper about dinosaurs?

 

That is stupid. Who doesn't like ham?

Or squashed crows? Stoopid publishing houses.

 

I haven't read a Tom Clancy book for years, but he has sections (just separated by spaces or dots, not actual chapters). He has multiple geographically separated plot lines all converging on the decisive moment of the story, and he raises the tension by giving shorter and shorter sections and more frequent jumps between. Some sections are just a few lines.

I find this annoying, but only in the sense of "this is another thing about Clancy's style that I find annoying" not "lose the plot and throw the book away" annoying. I also appreciate that he does it for a purpose (building tension, making absolutely sure that the reader knows where all of the chess pieces are at the critical moment.) and that I don't have a better way to pull diverse plot threads together all at once.

Actually, what I would do would be to follow one plot thread and have the other ones collide with it unexpectedly. I would then either have a wrap up discussion ("It was lucky you arrived at the riverside with that magic flaming sword just when we needed you!" "It wasn't luck, it was just that it went off while I was hiding it in my pants. I was running to the river to put them out.") or alternatively I would just let the reader figure out how the events came about (based on the excellent set ups earlier. "Don't worry, I have hidden the blazing blade in my pants." "Good. Why can I smell burning?")

 

I've got the info I was seeking about story length. Now for some necromancy re: fantasy writer's checklist:

I came across this (apparent) gem linked in TV Tropes (I was looking up "tomato surprise" B.I.O.N. Maybe it is akin to @Rikard 's mysterious "Chicken 65" recipe for modelling?)

I haven't had time to read it all yet, but Robert M. Schroeck is standing on the undead shoulders of the late George Scithers to give a pretty black, white and brutal set of guidelines for fan fiction writers WITH RATIONALES. Scalenex and I will no doubt enjoy it, and some of the bits I have read sound a lot like @lordkingcrow 's wisdom.

Further discussion ho?

 

Excellent topic? ♥Only because you inspired me♥

It will probably happily accept "Scalenex the Dishonoured" if you change you computer settings from Language/: American English to Language/: English English. Surname accepted.

I've read the whole thing and am a bit dissapointed that it clearly lays out a number of grammatical and convention type rules which I would have spent happy weeks eventually asking you guys about. Happy news is that it has identified about three unrecognised traps which I will scour my draft work for - starting tonight. I hope grammatical OCD will somehow compensate for my long and disorganized narrative...


For the record, adjectival phrases, redundant adjectives and correct use of past tense are in my sights tonight.

 

check out this little beauty I subdued with my new skillz.

(the person) "who was next in line ahead of them." Captured and tamed: "who was ahead in line."







(notes to self - monstrous arcana, forechaptering, had thought a foot.)

 

I skipped ahead to Part II, will post a little review a bit later

Is it...Sconenex?

I'm always a fan of parsimony (unless I'm describing a phantasmal dreamscape ;p ) so yes, good stuff. Was there any traps in particular you found to be...distasteful that you'd care to share with the community?

 

The honey trap. But mostly because I don't have any secrets worth finding out, therefore I am unlikely to ever be a candidate.

Most people see the ability to talk to snakes as a sign of a dark wizard, Harry.

 

This will get updated but, pitfalls I wasn't actually consciously aware of that I consider myself likely to fall into (now I think of it) (in no special order)

• Use of parentheses (here I go again - better sentence construction should obviate them)
• Adding redundant adverbs unnecessarily
• Bobble heads (I was semi aware)
• Not consciously designing character voices and then following my own rules
• Automatically using present- and past-perfect tense in character voices because it sounds more archaic / not modern. ie "It has rained here" (perfect) should probably just be "It rained here" - deeper analysis required.

 

Bobble heads and tense issues certainly plague my work. Bobble heads come more from my desire to avoid using speaking verbs (mentioned a litte bit later on) - I find "said" a very clunky way of conveying things, so I try to avoid it as much as possible. Tailouring speech to a movement is a good way to emote and display character e.g.

"We must go up the mountain, it's the only way" Heimlich nodded, arms crossed. "It'll be a slog, but we've all been through much worse" he added.

"Oh no, I think the idea quite impossible: just look at my fine, dandy boots.." Hinkerik lifted up the hem of this habit to reveal a pair of red and incredibly shiny clogs.

"Well...." Heimlich wiped the sudden beads of sweat from his forehead..."Oh my.."

As an example anyway. I'm sure there are far better ways to put it across once you've had a longer think about it.

Tense issues comes from my habit to veer towards Purple Prose. Unless deliberately used as a device, it's something I'm always eyeing to get with my editing hatchet.

 

I should add, one thing I find incredibly difficult is the "Narrative Voice vs. Character Voice": mainly, trying to ascribe each their own unique voice and reasoning. It adds to my aversion to writing dialogue. The problem with this is, as I weave the story threads together, if I'm not careful my characters are liable to become a kind-of Author Avatar as their actions follow my own rationale.

 

I am going to pick at the edges of what you just said above.

"Author avatar" I hear you brother. This is how I approach clamping my worldview onto the poor reader without having a main character finger wag at them. (which is valid - it is my story after all, and I would prefer you to think and disagree with me than not think at all) Hang with me - this is long.

Themes:
Many organisations have mission statement (which isn't quite a corporate goal.)
Mission: Ridding the world of the influence of Chaos, one neck at a time.
Goal: To chop 20% more heads off during this financial year.

A poorly selected mission statement is useless. The above example might be for a company that produces neck ties. The dream and the company capacity are mismatched. In this case, they would have been better saying "making daemons look more businesslike and less, you know, chaotic, one neck at a time."

A mission statement hangs on the wall until... there is a fork in the road decision. Even if it is a wrong and stupid mission statement, if everyone in the organisation applies the same model they can make wrong and stupid decisions together and discuss them in a kind of shared contextual language. Of course, if you do this and then lose your job then the mission was a crock and the suits were lying to you all along about blame free culture. But hey, you will still have the moral high ground when you tell the buddies you share your dumpster with about it.

A story theme is a mission statement. At any characterization / narrative fork in the road it is time to review the theme/themes again.

I don't always do it consciously, but I deal with BIG themes in my writing. Some might peter out over a chapter or three but others are the whole point. I just posted a chapter which is really just the beginning of a 2 book long thought bubble about what makes someone my "brother". Genetics? A common belief? A mutual need for community? A common enemy? If you are / become my brother, does it even matter how it came to be? (I like my themes to be open questions, not sledgehammer between the eyes pronouncements)

I am so sensitive to themes that poor Daughter of Bob had to sit in the car for 20 minutes today while I dissected the deeper meaning out of a half page passage that I had written for laughs anyway. See if you think there are deep messages when it gets posted in a day or two (the part will start with the words irretrievably domesticated)

Anyhow. To my eye, the characters give the plot relevance, the plot carries the readers interest along to the conclusion, but the plot is the vehicle which carries the theme. I care as much about the theme as the plot because my main interest lies in ideas.

The reason they made us study classics like "the Great Gatsby" and "The Bridge to Terebithia" at school was because they have straight forward, definable themes which make the stories internal consistent. The reason they are classics is because have straight forward, definable themes which make the stories internal consistent. I didn't really enjoy either story, but thirty years later I could still talk about the themes long after the character names and plot have faded from my memory.

I believe (in the usual "this is what Bob thinks, but you go your own way" way) that if you can step back and say that this story is about x in a thematic sense, then no single character needs to do all the heavy lifting to push the point. The anti thematic enemy fails (even if it is a non sentient force like ignorance or fear), the protagonists are put in situations where they can choose / not choose a theme supporting path and reap the consequences. The theme can be silent but still be promoted by having a "bad" character who prominently advertises the evils of being antithematic (eg an obviously "wrong" bigot is an advertisement for the benefits of inclusiveness). Suddenly you have a lot more tools in the toolkit, and it doesn't matter if your hero makes the speech, or hears it, or just feels uncomfortable with the answers they receive when they ask questions. The big idea gets expressed and the characters embrace it or fight it.

Here are some themes I am conscious of in my stuff.
God believes in atheists.
I can trust my brother, but I can't vouch for the number of fingers he might have.
Faith means you do what you hope is right, not that you sit on your hands and hope someone else tells you what to do - unless there is a twin tailed comet which is could possibly be construed as a sign.
Monsters are as monsters do (and its corollary)
The urge to conform / the risks of being your true self.

In Scalenex's work:
Here comes the destiny bus. In 30 seconds time you will be aboard it or under it. No, you don't get to choose which.
Massive endeavor alters the status quo by not a lot. Small people and small actions can change the world. Dammit. Now I need to pay attention to everything.
My life is s**t. Dang, so is my unlife.

In Lord Xhaltan:
I can see the plot rolling out quite nicely, but so far I haven't got a clear major theme yet.
There is likely to be some "Luke! Trust your feelings, Luke." and a lot more of "reality is not what it used to be."


TL;DR summary. Bob is silly enough to think mission statements are useful. Themes are the story equivalent. You don't need one (or several) but they can help give a point to the plot and serve as a tool to drive the author's conception of characters and narrative forward in a focused way.





Character voices (which I shall conflate with character types, because I don't have a clear conception of that yet.):
I recall a characterization discussion I had with Scalenex some time ago - he wanted to introduce another well educated and informed character into a already well populated narrative and he had already used up (these are my terms, not necessarily recognized ones) the absent minded professor, the unimaginative functionary, the religious zealot, the bored aristocrat, and Chekov's visiting scholar. As far as I could tell, his further options were limited to the short sighted librarian and the streetwise hooker.

For the record I don't know if he made a choice or just gave the lines to someone else. I hold out only faint hope that there will be a future chapter entitled "Candi takes one for the Empire."


Bobble heads:
I would take bobble heads to mean back ground characters without lines. It is not unusual to have 8 (or 80) characters in a room while an important piece of dialogue occurs. If everyone speaks it will be chaos to write and read. I think "audience reaction" to the words spoken is probably good to show the importance of the words, but throwing the spotlight on a non speaking third character might be clutter unless the story is about the third character and their reactions.

Compare:

"There will be blood on the streets tonight."
As Dictator-for-Life Calvin finished his rousing speech, the general mood in the secret clubhouse changed from unfocused anger to murderous intent.

Vs

"There will be blood on the streets tonight."
As Dictator-for-Life Calvin finished his rousing speech, President-and-First-Tiger Hobbes nodded vigorously and bared his long white teeth.

Option A - a valid general response. All individual tigers are assumed to be fully on board.
Option B - a valid tigercentric response. General response in the room is unknown but irrelevant.
or
Option B - a terrible indicator of general response. Irrelevant tigercentric focus detracts from overall understanding of the effect of the speech on the entire membership of G.R.O.S.S. Or not.

SoB comment: I have recently wrestled with a scene where all of the really important characters are in hiding and in a situation where they are being brought up to speed by other individuals who have witnessed recent events.

I decided to set the scene so the reader knows who is in the room and what they are doing (some are just listening, others have quiet background tasks) and then trust that the reader won't forget that they are all there. No one spoke or reacted unless I specifically required their unique perspective on the topics under discussion (the topics were Fencing, fighting, torture, revenge, giants, monsters, chases, escapes, true love, miracles. There were no R.O.U.S.s) One character gets just one piece of non verbal input. We don't even see his face, but it is critical to sealing the deal on a gag AND developing the universality of a major story theme.

The section was hard work and probably sucks, but the alternative was to spend 3 chapters describing the recent events which actually have no relevance to the story beyond the observation that "they were events that recently happened" and I would still have to have someone bring the main characters up to speed because they could not possibly have witnessed or known about the recent events themselves. In addition, there would be no opportunity to develop the relationship between the main characters and the newly introduced locals. The worst part of the "show don't tell" approach would be that the reader would never get to ask themselves "what the hell happened here?" and have an opportunity to be as surprised by the answer as the main characters were.


General apology:
I think by talking or by really slow inaccurate typing. Daughter of Bob had already reached her threshold today. You have all been very patient.

 

Its this eggshell. It concentrates cosmic rays or something on my brain. And the voices... yeah, the voices. Mostly they tell me what to think.

But I ignore them.




Back to "Bob thinks out loud". Bob also lies awake and refines his ideas.

I like would to add to "The theme should be your mission statement" - Just as helpful is to plan out the character arc of the focus character and use that to guide your plot moves.

No, Scalenex. "Starts alive, ends dead" is not a character arc.

But "Starts idealistic, ends up cynical" or "starts out carefree, ends up with regrets" or "starts out as a believer, ends up crippled by doubt about the rightness of the cause" are all satisfactory.

Aside from helping you write a cohesive story, using theme and character mission statements help your reader.

Using a theme as a guide can give you a plot which gives the whole story integrity even if it uses disparate characters to propel it. Reader has a context to explain unexpected (to them) plot moves.

Using a character arc as a guide can help to keep readers who identify with a character to sticking with the plot twists and turns AND the growth / deconstruction of the character they like. It can also give the plot gravity it might not otherwise have. (example: Badass General, Happy McSmiles orders a village to be burnt down because of plague. It is winter and the survivors will starve. He remains happy. The reader who relates to Happy McSmiles assumes that this is a routine occurance / that life is cheap / that tough decisions are easy. In the final battle, McSmiles unexpectedly surrenders (Like in the movie "Hero"). Reader goes WTM because there was no way for them to know that the village was, in fact, the pivotal scene and that the whole story hangs on the theme of 'what constitutes acceptable losses?'.) Character has integrity even when they do the opposite of what readers expect. Reader has a context to explain unexpected (to them) plot moves.

I hate to pick on @Kcibrihp-Esurc, mostly because he gives better than he gets. I like your blink-and-you-missed-it stories, I am intrigued by the underlying ideas. I love the cleverness of some of the lines - they are instant classics in some cases. I have no idea if there are themes (even accidental ones) and there aren't enough data points for me to be sure about character arcs. (The Esurc Origins series helps).

I think I like Adaris because of her skimpy costume because I think she is running from regret. I hope that she reappears and that Esurc will take my free advice and stick to it. - Take her a step in just about any planned direction. It doesn't need to impede the plot or style and might just slow things down and give the story more structure and focus.

 

THE PAAAIIIN!! AAAAAH!!! THE PAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry, @Kcibrihp-Esurc, I spelled her name wrong - "Ardaris" is the correct spelling.

If pain persists, please see a brain surgeon.

 

THAT'S NOT THE REASON!!!!!! THE PAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNN!!!!!!