Tutorial How to sculpt lizardmen: All your base...

No problem, hope you don't think I'm being stand off-ish, just trying to be realistic, last time I tried commission work of more than one per month, I got a serious case of mental burn out.

Eyes are simple, if you look back on page 3 of this thread, you'll see a section with photos on how I do it.

 

Sorry about being so quiet recently, loads of craziness going on.

• First off, my sisters birthday, I've put all other sculpts on hold to make her a birthday present.
• Secondly, I've been MASSIVELY writing a story called Twice Damned some of you may have heard of a while back (though I'll be surprised if more than one person even vaguely remembers it), for those who would like an idea, it was originally a story about a very unwillingly turned Strigoi called Jakob, by a surprisingly wise (albeit coldly pragmatic) strigoi known simply as "the master". He's soon left without his master and winds up in one hell of a pickle (term used lightly), having gathered the attention of a very old and powerful red haired Blood dragon vampire called Amelia, who in turn quickly changes her mind from wanting to kill him, to discovering that messing with his head, (occasionally saving him and just as frequently, giving him a hiding) is far more entertaining.

- NOTE: If anyone DOES remember it, don't worry, I've changed, added, extended and gap filled so much of it, it now reads very differently from the original, (including a completely different ending) I've also changed the world, background, history and species (including their origins) to make the entirety of it all, my own. This also includes more than its fair share of twists, more character development (especially the lesser known ones), more romance, more internal confliction and confusion, darker in place, lighter in others and overall made the whole thing far less clear cut (to an extent that I want the reader to question at numerous stages who is good, who is bad, to what extent and even if such concepts can be so clear cut).

Still got a HUGE amount to add to it all, it's pushing over 200 pages at the moment, but when I'm done it will easily be over 300.
Hopefully @spawning of Bob might be interested.

• Thirdly, work continues on Gor-rok, I'll put a tutorial together on his shield when it's finished, but at the moment more scales, more experimenting and I'm intrigued to see how I can push/adapt this one.
• Fourthly, I got an email back from Felix regarding the Salamander too, good news is he likes it, bad news is he doesn't have any resin casting facilities available (not yet anyway) that he thinks would be best suited for it. I will be holding on to the salamander of the indefinite future as a result, sorry about that, I know a few of you were hoping for better news.

 

More than anything, I'd like to see progress on your stegadon if any has been made.

Reason 1: As much as I want you to continue to make original sculpts so you can cast and sell them to me, I own 5 stegadons.I have 3 painted and 2 unmodeled unpainted. To say the least, the standard pose is starting to get redundant, and it just isn't gunna have the same cool model impact when fielding steg 4 and 5 as it did setting down 1, 2, and 3. And to be honest, the model feels like such a brick that I wouldn't even know how to begin changing the pose.

Reason 2: I've used enough green stuff to know a sculpt from scratch is far beyond my skill level. I have much more to gain, as far as progressing my own skill, from seeing conversion work.

 

You're not the only one!

 

THIS, is not a reason, certainly not a valid one, if you had said, "I've used enough green stuff to know a sculpt from scratch is beyond my current skill level." then I could have accepted it, but if you give up before you even try, then how do you expect to make any progress at all?

This is also why I really dislike the terms "talented" or "gifted", they're both excuses/labels, implying the individual in question finds learning, progressing and the whole sculpting process, either easier (or worse, effortless) when compared to everyone else and it's complete codswallop.

It's all about being determined and being patient (a good helping of stubbornness goes a long way), but DON'T give up before even trying, DON'T give up because it doesn't go right first time, DON'T give up because you don't know where to start and for the love of all things holy, DON'T apply labels or excuses to yourself or other people, because you CAN do it!

Here's the real gritty truth behind it all (simplified version)
Attempt 1. Try to sculpt, fail, does it look good? No...
Attempt 2. Try to sculpt, fail, does it look good? No (not as bad as before)
Attempt 3. Try to sculpt, meh, does it look good? okish...
Attempt 4. Try to sculpt, hmmm, does it look good? sort of...
Attempt 5. Try to sculpt, ok, does it look good? Table topish I guess, but not mini worthy.
Attempt 6. Try to sculpt, hmmm, does it look good? yes, still weak areas.

and so on....

This isn't me being harsh, or cruel, this is me using my +10 stick of motivation. (and at this rate, I'm becoming sorely tempted to make one).

Reason 1: Levers and pistons, simple as that, google will ALWAYS be able to help with gaining an understanding of anatomy and musculature (if you're stuck), always look for examples and you will find them (especially if you use real life based ones).

It's what I did for the recent (but not quite finished) Howling Banshee (dark Eldar variant), I actually found a pose from an actual gold metal winning gymnast, which I then used to make sure everything fitted in (anatomy, pose, proportions, grace, etc, etc...).

 

I did mean my current skill level. I am pretty optimistic. But.
I have to say I am way beyond "attempt 6" and my sculpt work hasn't reached table top quality let. I am improving from my "attempt 1". That being said. you do actually have some talent man. It's not all stubbornness fueling your creations. Even the greats have to practice and fall down to get where they are. But not everyone can be that good. Maybe one day soon I'll send you a picture of my "carnivorous plant". I'm pretty motivated and giving a fair amount of effort. There is no doubt in my mind that one day I can at least present pieces that are table top quality. I'm getting there. And when I do, I'll make sure you know asap.

Spoiler

It's not that I haven't tried. I'll list a few "works" I've done.

1. My green stuff projects started ignorantly ambitious. Having never seen the stuff, me and a friend of mine decided we could create a new head for a skink priest given all the examples we have in my army. I mean how hard could it be? I wish I had pictures, but I scrapped dozens, and spent more than a few nights doing so. In the end I did manage an OK crest for the skink priest that I use today.

2. After that I did a lot of unsuccessful weapons. I don't know what I was doing attempting to do perfectly flat and straight edges. All of my combined efforts here, gained me very little experience and was mostly wasted time.

3. I made two command groups for my skinks. Conversions of course. I actually have a relatively successful banner out of the lot. I actually was so proud of it I attached it to a skink chief and used it as the "skaven pelt banner" back when it was only usable by skinks. In 8th I use it often when not using my slann as the BSB.

4. I did some conversion work that is probably my best work.
http://www.lustria-online.com/data/attachments/5/5020-cca800d4c36a73068d3d1259dc55509d.jpg
I'm too embarrassed to tell you how long those symbols on the axe took me.
I also did the neck of a 2nd hand stegadon I acquired that looks fairly natural.

5. These bullets go in to particular order. Throughout, I have attempted a ton of unit fillers, from the carnivorous plant, which I still have, to small frogs and snakes, to comets. craters, and floor tiles. None of which ever made it to table top quality. Though I do still have a lot of them. I have a comet, two crater unit fillers(incomplete, quality unsatisfactory), and two piss poor floor tile bases I've yet to use due to quality issues.

As far as original sculpts, the biggest issue I have, is recreating what I have done on both sides. like a nice eye, side of the plant, etc. Once I do something I like on one side, I can't do it again, while trying to do it on the same scale as the other. I did some pretty decent white lion conversions for a friend. I can do fur and scales decent enough given enough attempts and time. I am also trying to do something with one of the old slanns to make him look unique. ATM I've ripped everything off I've added so he is as plain as the day I got him.

 

That was an example of what I meant, it will be more than 6 conversions before you get somewhere.

You mean like that time I sculpted 40 female heads over the course of a week, one after the other until I got something that was okish?
Yeah, I'm glad talent was behind all of that, I would have hated having to practice and learn how to do it for myself, that would have been a real pain.

Sarcasm aside I cannot agree with you, I know exactly what's rattling around in my head, but I don't believe talent (or indeed the idea/notion of talent) to be the cause, I KNOW it's all to do with attitude and approach. There is a wargaming club over here and many of the guys sit in when I sculpt and so get to see what I'm doing, things I have noticed however is people will comment on how I pay more attention to individual parts than they would (like scales) and each time I say:

"that's because there's a certain look I'm trying to achieve".

In the same vein I get comments such as:

"You should leave part "X" because it looks good enough as it is"

But again I don't, I work on that part until I reach a certain level, one that I am happy with, if you leave everything at a basic standard, then even a good model will look basic, because basic is what you aimed for.

I got a B at GCSE for Art and a D at A-level.
My sculptor tutor at uni wanted to fail me but I was awarded a "Pass" in the end, doesn't sound like the sort of thing that happens to "talented" people does it?

There's two major problems with that sentence.
1. I'm not great, I'm persistent.
2. Giving up before you start.

2 in particular is poisonous because you admit defeat without trying, imagine being told "you won't be able to do it" by someone before you do anything, very quickly you will feel awful, worthless and depressed, you certainly won't do things to the standard you are capable of and you won't enjoy it. This is why I will keep bashing on and on about trying, it's also why I do these tuts, too many people give themselves far too little credit and it needs to stop!

When I first started doing full sculpts I was getting asked by people for more "progress" shots, you know 3-4 in between shots with some brief info on what I did and why.

• - This then turned into requests for small tuts on specific parts.
• - Which in turn became requests for full blown stage by stage photos and explanations.
• - Which has now become full blown requests for filming and commenting from start to finish.

See the progression there?

I do my best to fill some of the gaps for people to encourage them (look at some of the threads + posts I've made on this site), but people keep asking me for more and more without even trying to meet me half way. How long will it before I start getting emails from people asking me to fly over and conduct one on ones with them?

If I do an in-depth tut from start to finish then a sculpt will roughly take me twice as long to complete, which is why I refused for so long. Admittedly I do kind of enjoy it, I really don't get a lot of thanks for helping on places like Deviantart, people can in fact stay eerily quiet, even with regards to what they want to see next. However none of this is about glorification, or gratification, it's about getting people to realise their inner potential, I would love nothing more than to see people try, ask if they're stuck, or want feedback, or best of all, actually shatter misconceptions they've developed about themselves.

This sounds like more of the correct attitude.

1. See my earlier comment, 40 heads over a week to get something that was okish.
2. Weapons need milliput or apoxie sculpt, you can sand it afterwards to get smooth edges.
3. Do more conversions and make the amount of changes you do increase over time.
4. Photo is a bit too blurry for me to make out the images clearly, but I will ask you this, if you had to re-do that again, what would you try differently?
5. Constantly re-think your approach, if something constantly doesn't work, try it again, but change your approach. An enemy fort that is impregnable on one side, will always be impregnable if you keep attacking it on the same side.

That's why you do heads as one whole stage, so you can adjust and smooth both sides at the same time, it's what I do.

 

I guess I should revisit the skink head. Really dreading that though. I don't think I made 40. It's possible. It's all a blur happening more than a few years ago. I just remember the ones I got the furthest on. And a lot of disappointment. I'll probably keep working on my slann, though it's a bit aimless. I really don't exactly know what I'm even attempting with him. I'm probably better off with the stegadon. Trying to make him anything but the one I've done 3 times over so far.

But first, I need a victory. I'm going to start by making a new tongue for my troglodon. Mine snapped off and disappeared. That's a project I should be able to tackle fairly easily. Gunna try that method of spending a butt load of time on it even though it's shape is fairly simple. I'll try and make it perfect. Think I should bother making a wire frame to make it a bit more sturdy and make sculpting easier?

 

You need to take on board what I said about re-focusing your approach, it's all about thinking of the structure and constantly asking yourself "How can I make this easier?"

This is really important with armatures, you know what a T-rex skull looks like without the muscles and skin on it right? Making a rough armature like that and then putting detail over it when it's hardened is how you do it.

As for the tongue, hmm probably best done with thick wire as a center structure and pinning point.

 

Hopefully this will copy and paste ok, if not I'll post up a link to my DA journal.
I've written an intro into mini sculpting, something which I hope will be of much great use to new comers to mini sculpting and help getting started. It's actually a lot different from ones I've done in the past, more positive for a start.

EDIT: Ok, it's really not liking it (too pic heavy).

So here's the link: http://the-build.deviantart.com/journal/Another-mini-adventure-The-Golden-rules-558643091

I will post a very, very, very brief summary if people would like it?

 

Apologies again for the delay on this.

Like I said before I'm trying a new method on how to sculpt the arms/torso of the Gor-rok piece I'm doing and I made a lot of progress, but I had a slight problem...

All of this sculpting business is a big learning curve, all the time in fact. I made some huge mistakes on it and so am currently resculpting it, but I will cover these mistakes and show you what I mean, as I think/hope it might help more if I can show you these mistakes.

Thank you all for being so patient with this, it means a lot to me and so after I'm finished with Gor-rok, I'll do a VERY full tutorial on the egg of Quango, from sketch to finished piece, it's the least I think I owe you all.

 

HAVE RIPPERDACTYLES WITH 2 SETS OF WINGS! that would be Epic!

 

Way over due for updates me thinks...


Not sure how many of you see my DA account, but I SHOULD have updated the forum here long ago, when I updated my journal.
The problem I'm struggling with is making tutorials, I find my sculpting speed is probably less than half what it is when I'm not making tuts, it also becomes harder to start a piece as I like having tons more time free than I normally would, so I can take photos but progress enough that I'm not stuck between stages.

Even without those factors, I'm going to confess to something a tad angsty...
I've found it hard to be motivated with GW related sculpts since a certain event... no-one in my group even plays fantasy any more, plenty play 40K, there's more games of X-wing, Hordes, warmachine, etc, etc appearing, but no WHFB and no-one has even broached trying AOS, or asking if anyone else plays it, there is zero interest.

With that said, at least for the foreseeable future, I'm hanging up my sculpting mits as far as tutorials go.



However, the bad news out of the way, there COULD be some good news, I'm looking at doing youtube vids, numerous members have mentioned filming small stages (teeth for example) and I now agree (wish I figured it out earlier).

It means no writing up tuts.
No photo taking.
No delay once record has been pressed.
And (very possibly) I could get some cash from adverts on youtube and twitch (depending on if I get more than 2 views. )

I have a channel for years ago (only one vid on it and it's not a sculpting one).
A big interest in Hordes has kind of got me interested in taking lizardy sculpts in a very different direction and I think this will be a good thing, who knows, it may even help me push my style further, to completely ditch any GW attachment and going off in directions I had not thought of.

Any thoughts feelings, or advice/suggestions, let me know.

 

I would definitely be interested in a youtube channel with sculpting tips and tricks! And even longer projects (sped up for watchability of course!) Would even subscribe!

 

Hopefully 9th Age will change that. Does anyone in your gaming group show any interest towards it?

Youtube videos sound awesome. I think the video format lends itself very well to demonstrating sculpting techniques. Your tutorials were extremely good, but I think this has the potential to be even better. I for one hope that you go through with it, I'd love to watch the content you'll produce.

 

Good idea rikard I'll definitely be an early subscriber

 

So in one of my many Slann like states of contemplation (post gym training and sugar drunk on all the carbohydrates), I've been thinking and pondering on not so much the video side (which will happen), but the future as a whole of sculpture side for Lustria Online.

The thing is I think the site is like my own special corner of the internet, the members on here are like no-one and nothing I've ever encountered before, some I've known for a long time, others not too long at all, but seeing how you ALL come together in almost every aspect is always heartwarming.


What I've been trying to get my head around for a while is how best to utilize support, help and the occasional motivational nudge (the later being something I need to work at. >>)
I've updated my sig with helpful topic areas and hopefully some bits and bobs that will encourage people a little more, especially with support.


However I am curious to know, how can this be pushed further still?

I've only got understanding and experience from one perspective (mine) and it's all very well trying to guess what looking being outside looking in, is like when I'm inside, looking out, but it's impossible to know without asking.

• So what is it that you think would genuinely help you?
• What are your concerns with sculpting for yourself (don't worry if it's fear, I get it plenty still, everyone experiences fear and admitting it is nothing to feel ashamed by)?
• Would having support help? (such as me encouraging in my sig for people to speak to me and ask for feedback)
• What do you think of the sculpting contest, really? What considerations would be helpful to you?

 

Hey mate. This forum really is a special little part of the internet. We're still kicking around long after people have lost interest in fantasy. It's gotta say something about the people here.
as for ideas, I think for me, the hardest part is sculpting fine details and inorganic matter (like flat plates of armour), and a beginners guide to non greenstuff(and potentially green stuff later) work would make a great a great video series!

 

I rely agree that lustria online is something speciall. Even tho I just have a few lizardmen miniatures and a complete army of dwarfs I spend most of my forum time here and not at the brewery.
Abaut you're questions would the most helpfull be to sculpt together. In my club we ofthen paint before and after the games. Obviously would that not be possible as we live ower the hole world but we might sculpt on Skype.?
Not like a corse more like a study circle we can watch eatch others thecnics and ask questions abaut specific stuff that anybody cold answer.
I think this is the perfekt forum for it
THE SKINK SKYPE SULPTERS
TSSS for short

//Essmir