"You can ensure your Oldblood survives if the Carnosaur dies by not sticking him onto the saddle when you build him." - this sounds like some sort of house rule, pretty sure this is not in the official rules, as it is the first time I have heard such a rule.
Lol, well...we had our game Saturday...and he didn't bring his blender vamp. Lol! I think he realized that it was a really cheesy build and decided he wanted to go swarm army instead. It was actually a game of Triumph and Treachery between my Lizardmen, Vampire Counts and Wood Elves. I forgot to take pictures until we were halfway through the game. Next time. Here's the armies: My Lizardmen: Lords and Heroes: Slann (BSB, Banner of Discipline, Channeling Staff, Harmonic Convergence, Harrowing Scrutiny [due to all the Terror causing VC units], Reservoir of Eldrich Energy) Saurus Scar Vet (Glittering Scales, Dragonbane Gem, Sword of Swift Slaying, Shield) - [In with Temple Guard mostly as an Ethereal deterrent.] Skink Priest (Lv2, Dispel Scroll) Skink Chief (Warrior Bane, Enchanted Shield) Core: 28 Skink Cohorts (poison, Javelins/Shields), 3 Kroxigor (Anchient) 10 Skink Skirmishers (Javelins/Shields) 20 Saurus Warriors (FC) Special: 3 Terradon Riders (Fireleech Bolas, Sky Leader) 20 Temple Guard (FC) Bastiladon (Solar Engine) Total = 1998 Vampire Counts: Lords and Heroes: Necromancer (Lv4, Dispel Scroll, stuff...) Necromancer (Lv1, stuff...) Vampire (Lv2, stuff...) Core: Zombies (2 units with tons) Skeletons (2 units with tons) Dire Wolves (3 units of 5) Fell Bats (3 units of 2) Special/Rare: Mortis Engine Vargulf 3 Spirit Hosts Wood Elves: (This was his second game and he was WAY off on his point totals but we didn't want to overwhelm him.) Lords and Heroes: Glade Lord on Forest Dragon (stuff...) Spellweaver (Lv4, Dispel Scroll, stuff...) Treeman Ancient (Lv3, Strangleroots) Core: 10 Eternal Guard 15 Dryads 12 Glade Riders (Trueflight Arrows, FC) Special: 10 Wildwood Rangers (FC) 6 Wild Riders (FC) 3 Treekin This was mostly a learning game so we didn't want to push it too hard on the WE player. It was mostly between Lizardmen and VC. The VC player was intending to raise so many units and Invocate the heck out of them. My strategy was to use Beasts and make my units so tough that he could never grind through them. We were playing the T&T scenario with the 12" circle objective in the middle. Turn one, VC go first. Minimal movement, mostly shuffling a bit. Magic, his lv2 Vampire miscasts Raise Dead and loses both spell levels. 8 Zombies appear in the middle. His lv4 tries Curse of Years and I stop it. He gets off Invocation with him though and raises a lot more in each unit. He had no shooting. Lizardmen go next: I aggressively move up to the middle. Skink Cohort up front, Temple Guard behind them. Skinks to the left of Cohort, Warriors behind them. Bastiladon to the right of Cohort, Terradons started off to the left of Skink Skirmishers, but after seeing his Fell Bats multiply in number to six models, I move them over to my right flank and let the Warriors hold the left.. Magic, I try casting Pann's Pelt on Cohort, but it's dispelled. I cast Amber Spear at a unit of Skeletons with Vamp in it. It goes off, but Vamp passes LOS! roll. Kills 6 Skeletons (woo-hoo). I cast Wildform on Cohort with IF. Miscast result is calam. detonation. I kill 6 Temple Guard and lose the rest of my PD. *facepalm!* Skinks shoot at a unit of Wolves, take two out. WE go last. Very conservative movement as expected. Tried to cast a few spells, but they are all stopped. Shooting takes out all but 1 zombie in the middle. Turn two, VC go first again. Again minimal movement, shuffling up a bit to the center circle, Dire Wolves hanging back, Bat Swarms move up on my left trying to skirt around me and get into my backfield. Magc. He casts Invocation and I let it go through waiting on CoY. CoY comes and I stop it with my Dispel Scroll. He tries a third spell, Hellish Vigor. Miscast. He blows up around him, killing a few Zombies. Minimal effect to him. Turn two, WE go second. A little more shuffling up except now, he moves his Glade Lord on Forest Dragon up to my right flank. He's far enough away that he can't breathe on my infantry, but is now able to breathe on my Terradons and Bastiladon. Magic is inconsequential. He shoots at my Temple Guard but only wounds 1 which I armor save. He uses his dragon's breath weapon and puts 1 wound on a Terradon and 1 wound on my Bastiladon (somehow!). They are now Stupid but well within range of my General's Ld10. Turn two, Lizardmen go last. I charge my Cohort into his skeletons (with Vampire) in the middle. I move my Terradons in behind my Temple Guard facing the Fell Bats. (I need a unit protecting my rear.) Everything else moves up. Magic. I have a good phase. I cast Pann's Pelt on the Cohort. Then I try to cast Amber Spear on his Fell Bats, dispelled. He doesn't have enough DD to stop the remaining spells. I cast Wildform on my Skirmishers and then shoot the laser beam from the Solar Engine at the last remaining Zombie in the middle, killing it and getting the gold for it! In shooting, I take out a few more dogs with my Skinks. In close combat, I hit the skeletons hard. His Vamp only does 1 wound to my unit, his skeletons don't do anything, I kill a bunch they crumble more. His Fell Bats only do 1 wound to my Terradons, but that's enough to kill one. I kill 4 in return and more crumble. Turn three, Vampire Count go first (...AGAIN!) He charges in a unit of Wolves into my Cohort, as well as a Spirit Host. He charges another unit of dogs into my Skirmishers (I stand and shoot, killing one and another dies to dangerous terrain.) His Fell Bats charge my Terradons and they stand and shoot but don't kill any. Magic is dispelled. His close combat is a bit better now, though I still win combat and my Skink Chief manages to kill his Spirit Host (He did his job!). More crumble. Turn three, WE go. He moves his Dragon up to the middle and prepares to breathe on a Spirit Host. His Wild Riders charge a unit of skeletons that are closing in on him. Everything else moves up. (He is content letting us weaken each other, but you win T&T by collecting gold for objectives and killing units!) In magic, he tries casting Dwellers Below, drawing out his Dispel Scroll. The rest is shut down. Shooting takes a few wounds off his Mortis Engine and his breath weapon hits, but doesn't kill the Spirit Host. Close combat he kills tons of skeletons, wins combat and more crumble but loses 1 WR in the process and the unit is still 40+ strong. Turn three, Lizardmen go last. I turn my Warriors to help out with the Terradon/FellBat battle. Magic is low, but I manage to get Wildform off on my Cohort. No shooting. I lose another Terradon, but still manage to beat him in combat res. He loses more Bats. Only two left. Cohort kills the remaining dogs and more skeletons, but take a lot of damage back. They still win combat though and more crumble. I am down to my 3 Kroxigor, Skink Chief and several Skinks. The Skirmishers and dogs trade blows. Turn four, Lizardmen go first (Finally!) I charge my Warriors into the rear of his Fell Bats. My Bastiladon prepares for a charge from Treekin. Magic sees Pann's Pelt on the Cohorts. The Vampire manages to kill one Kroxigor and I have 4 more Skinks left as well as my Skink Chief. I kill plenty of Skeletons back and win combat. My Warriors attack and kill the remaining Fell Bats. The dogs finally kill off my Skink Priest, and only a few Skirmishers are left. Turn four, WE. He moves his dragon behind the VC lines, targeting the Varghulf threatening his flank. In his magic phase, he targets the Mortis Engine with a boosted Soul Quench and finishes it off, but....BOOM! The Mortis Engine blows up right in the middle of everything! It kills 3 more of my skink cohort, all but 2 of my Skirmishers, brings my Bastiladon down to his last wound, BUCKET LOADS of his own troops as well as his Varghulf, and a few Wood Elves. Shooting brings down the third Spirit Host. He loses another Wild Rider in combat. Turn four, VC He doesn't really move. Magic, he got Hellish Vigor off on his Vampire and Skeleton unit. Close combat he only kills 3 Skink Cohorts, but his dogs finally kill the last Skink with one dog left standing. Turn five, (guess who?) VC go first again. He moves his last remaining dog to safety. He gets Hellish Vigor off on his Vampire and unit again. (I've been throwing everything at stopping Gaze on my Slann and CoY.) Close combat, his Vampire manages to kill another Kroxigor and the last Skink Cohort dies to the Skeletons. The last remaining Kroxigor and Skink Chief run and get away. Turn five, WE. He charges his Treekin into my Bastiladon. Magic is shut down. He shoots at my Temple Guard again, but does nothing. The Treekin put the last remaining wound on my Bassy and kill it, reforming to face my Warriors. At this point it is getting late and our wives and kids are tired and ready to go home. Since I had gained the most gold and was in the lead, we decided to call the game there since it wouldn't do me anymore good to play out my turn 5. Win for the Lizardmen!
Triumph and Treachery... I have never been able to get it and now AoS has appeared I never will! I would have advised using Lore of Shadows to obtain Okkam's Mindrazor - even a unit of Skinks becomes brutal with Strength 6, and Saurus are terrifying with Strength 8. Also, why take loads of Skinks who would get massacred in melee when you could have had more Saurus to pack on the attacks? Multiple Saurus units can meatgrind VC units because they are very weak in combat except for Grave Guard. I would have also focussed all my attack on the VC and challenged the Vampire with the Saurus Oldblood - Oldblood with Sword of Swift Slaying would wipe the floor with a Vampire, and would have aimed the Solar Engine at the Mortis Engine to try to get rid of it quickly because it can cause trouble otherwise. Nothing can argue with it if you roll a 6 - 2D6 Strength 6 hits! I've seen a solar engine kill 4 Ogres in a single turn.
Well a bloke from Games Workshop mentioned the rule because he once played with Warriors of Chaos and had a character on a Manticore as his leader. When the Manticore died the WoC character also died because he simply didn't have a model on foot to model the Chaos character without his mount. Of course not sticking a character to a saddle won't work with some models because they would have 'Airfix cavalryman leg' syndrome when put on a foot base, but the mounted Oldblood legs are very similar to the foot legs, so I was able to use blu-tack to allow me to take my Olblood off the Carnosaur and put him on a foot base if the Carnosaur dies.
Well I don't know. The chap in question certainly liked to win, because he kept using Warriors of Chaos in fantasy events, specifically to beat people...
Yeah, that guy was totally blowing smoke in the other guys face. Nobody does that unless they are a WAAC player. Besides, I have ample models. I really wanted to just try out a Skink Cohort with 3 Kroxigor and see how they did. I've never used them before and they also have poison, stand and shoot, ranged attacks, stomp attacks, and 10 S7 attacks. Not bad at all. They're main weakness is that they can killed so easily, but by running Lore of Beasts (specifically Pann's Pelt [+3T] and Wyssan's Wildform [+1S & +1T]) they become nightmares to kill. Also, I knew that he'd be running a lot of Skeletons and Zombies, which are not exactly great at combat, and that I'd be able to put the hurt on 'em. If I ran a block of Saurus, I would only be bringing Predatory Fighter attacks to the table. They are slightly more resilient, but with Lore of Beasts, that's not really an issue. I was very pleased with how well the Cohort did! They are definitely a unit that I'd run again if I am using the Lore of Beasts. Plus, they can significantly weaken an opponent for Temple Guard to finish off (which was their point in my list). Had we gone another round, I would've charged my Temple Guard and Scar Vet in and killed his Vampire (plus most of his Skeletons!).
@n810 is correct. What an underhanded way to try to sell more models. I would personally never stand for such a ruling. Trust me, if he really liked to win he wouldn't be fielding a Chaos Lord on a Manticore!
Luckily I don't buy extra models for that. I'll show you what I mean as soon as I am able to take a pic of my Oldblood on Carnosaur. Now that I think about it he was using a Sorcerer Lord on Manticore. He always wanted to win against me because he always used a unit of more than 20 Chaos Warriors and Chaos Knights against me.
A very weak option in my opinion. That's very common. WoC core is largely going to be comprised of a combination of Chaos Warriors and Chariots. Chaos knights are decent but there are more potent options in the book (Chimeras, Gorebeast Chariots, Skullcrushers, etc).
Hold on you contradicted yourself there. You've been saying Manticores are a poor option most of the time but now you say they are more potent than Chaos Knights! I've at least had one comeback against them when I beat a unit of 20 Marauders with a unit of 10 Dwarf Thunderers with no casualties on my side
Hahaha... my bad . Manticores are indeed terrible. I meant to say Chimeras, which are awesome! I'll have to correct my post. Good catch.