There is no better chaff than Beast Packs, you cannot find anything better. List looks solid, can't say much really.
After a mediocre 5 rounds at manticon (2-1-2), i'm going to be trying something new Prime Horde w/headstrong Ancients on rhinosaurs w/healing brew Ancients on rhinosaurs w/pathfinder Kaisenor lancer regiment 3x Ghekkotah warrior troops 3x Lekelidons Herald w/Lute Mage w/inspire and weakness Flying drake lord w/+1 piercing I was either going to try 2x lycans or no lycans at all next. Nimble really is amazing, but ive been wanting to try a fully non allied army for a while after watching my lycans get nuked with no inspiring rerolls time and again. I might swap the 3 ghekko troops for 2 regiments and trade healing brew for blood of kings on the ancients. The regiments would be better targets for Bane chant, and blood of kings virtually guarantees a kill against 20-21 nerve opponents, however the troop footprint would make chaffing much easier on my deployment and movement. Might also go griffon banner on the herald. Really keen on +2 Crushing on primes though.... At manticon I had a draw and a loss that each hinged on the opponent rolling a 12 on nerve against my primes after sustaining just a couple wounds. Highly irritating, so dwarven ale it is. Too often i find myself using the flying drake as area denial rather than straight up combat power. I find him breathing as much as he melees, and im hoping that Heartseeking Chant will let me one shot chaff and light cav, as well as combo up with the lekelidons for bigger targets. Might try boots of levitation too.
I would go for Blood of the Old King without hesitation, It's just so good on the Ancients for just 15 points that is ridiculous. Making an average of around 16 wounds against anything plus Brutal is just devastating. You only have it once but being honest there is usually only one time you NEED it. You loose one drop but I think it's worth it. Healing Brew works really well on them too. Primes not being Fearless is hard if your opponent is lucky, I've almost forgot what it feels since I use FE as my Battleline but stopping your horde with one or two wounds hurts a lot. Headstrong is not the best rule in the world but can help. I'm tempted to try Weakness as well, I am debating between weakness and Soul Drain to give my Mage-Priest something useful to do when everything is in combat but I don't like the fact that you cannot cast Weakness onto a unit that is in combat. That being said with just 6 inches of range and costing so many points i'm not sure Sould Drain is a good option either, might have to think about Bloodboil too. I like the rest a lot.
Well, i had another change of heart and was inspired by you guys , recent tournaments, and UB practice. New list: Primes horde Primes horde w headstrong Lancer regiment Lancer regiment Corsair troop Corsair troop Lekelidon Lekelidon Lekelidon Herald w lute Flying drake lord w fire oil Flying drake lord w +1 piercing Ive gotten in one game, and the general theory seems solid. Screen primes and cav with lekelidons and corsairs, which both can kill his chaff and guarantee me the charge, while preventing him from double charging the heavy infantry. Drakes on the flanks further prevent his chaff from controlling the field and themselves dictate enemy movement. Our drakes might be the worst of the bunch but they are the best breath you can get on a flying unit; the magic items only further push that superiority. Lately ive found that ive been breathing more than meleeing anyways. Pierce 1 all but guarantees death to any chaff in the game and SHOULD stick 6 wounds on 4 defense, which puts me in reasonable waiver range for any 14/16 unit (most cav and infantry regiments) and kill range of 10/12 units (semi chaff like wraiths). Fire oil eats gargoyles for breakfast, and are the primary chaff for 3 different armies. Pierce 1 really seems to change the game for breath 16. I have very little wiggle room for magic items, and the lute seemed a no brainer. Id like to try helm of the ram on the lancers, but the lute will have to do.
I'll be playing in some 2150s coming up and haven't decided on the best way to spend the points. I would REALLY like to add a 13th or 14th unit, but not sure I can. Wishlist so far is upgrading lancers to ancients on rhinos, or adding a mage with BC (which requires another regiment for his slot, or swapping a lancer regiment for a horde). what else can be done with 150 that complements the force?
I like the list a lot, seems fun to play. For the use of the extra 150, upgrading a Lancer regiment to a Rhinosaurs Horde seems a good idea, another option is two Ember Sprites regiments, or a Ghekkotah Warriors Regiment and some magic items. The Embers seems like a good idea to get some extra drops and maybe useful to kill chaff or capture objectives for a very small amount of points.
you know i dont really like ember sprites because they dont seem to do much at all, but they just might synergize really well with all the other short ranged shooting in the list as well as further keep the lancers and primes protected. Or two troops of unblooded. I really want to run the rhinos as my models took alot of work, and they are badass, but i ALSO really want more drops..... hmmmm
5 round tournament this weekend, off to try this conglomeration of nonsense: prime horde w/kevinar's flying hammer prime horde corsair troop corsair troop kaisenor lancer regiment w/helm of the ram ancients on rhinosaurs w/wine of elvenkind lekelidon lekelidon lekelidon herald w/lute flying drake w/boots of levitation skylord skylord w/blade of beastslaying
I'm really excited to see how this army fares in a big tournament (I assume it's the Lone Wolf), as well as the other Salamander armies (apparently there are 5 in total), since there really aren't a lot of tournament data on them. Break some bones.
Played a practice game last night on universal battle against Nightstalkers. Made some general mistakes, but the new tricks in the list really shone: Flying fire drake with boots of levitation avoided charge arcs whilst breathing a stealth unit and later a fast flank threat 30" away late game. Skylords avoided charge arcs then locked down a mind screech. I didn't get to flank any actual units with the blade of beastslaying skylord, but i got my points back in locking down said mindscreech and chaffing a unit of butchers in order to flank them next turn. Nimble ancients on rhinosaurs maneuvered around and slammed into an individual and overrun into a butcher horde flank. Corsairs forgot to vanguard and didn't do much of anything lol, but had they vanguarded would have provided some valuable shooting against fast movers and chaffed properly. Lancers had to be deployed near terrain and didn't get to hit anything with TC2. Won the game off the back of both skylords and drake moving up a flank and threatening multiple units maneuver lanes. Double skylord instead of a single drake was quite flexible.
4 rounds into this tournament with 1 win, 1 loss, 2 draws. Positively disappointed with the corsairs. i feel like a pair of komodon's however bad, are what my games needed. Seems like an easy swap. Lancers have been mediocre. Either they get a hit in and die, or are targets for flying units. Skylords are showing promise but are tricky, though i feel a second flying drake would just be better.
Round 1- Herd- win 4x stampede 3x spiritwalker horde 2x beast pack 2x harpies centaur chief New player and tabled him. Round 2- Elves- draw 2x dragons dracon horde archer horde shambler horde 2x silverbreeze troop stormwind regiment green lady tough game where i dug my heals in making life hard on his dragons while working my way towards his archer/cav units. Beastslayer skylord disordered his dracons setting up for a charge, and got killed the turn after when my drake joined the fray. Poor setup of lekelidons meant that i wasted a turn of shooting, and had to move the next turn; I should have positioned to shoot dragons. Round 3- Undead- draw 3x trolls skelli horde rev horde morgoth necro 2x winged wyrm kings wraith regiment We jucked up Push rules and put counters on flying stuff. I made a fatal mistake by leaving one of my token bearing units in range instead of moving conservatively. Token on flying 6def morgoth wasnt going to happen (push tokens are supposed to remove fly, nimble but we were both retarded). Round 4- Twilight kin- loss 2x dragon 2x garg 4x chariot horde 3x dragon breath 2x shadows TLDR: got shot off the table with no recourse. Not fast enough, dont shoot enough, not tough enough. Round 5- Twilight kin- draw 2x xbow horde 2x xbow regiment 3x heralds of woe 2x dark avenger on abyssal mount 3x ballista 2x blacksoul regiment grog mortar angkor mortar TLDR: got shot off the table, but the terrain was much better. Honestly he rolled hot, and I could have won it easily without a couple nerve rolls from 1 damage plinks in the last turn. List final thoughts. Corsairs are bad. I need more pressure (swap corsairs for komodons; 36" would have forced my opponents hands when their shooting is only 24") 2x skylords was fun and i'll keep working on it but 2x drakes.... Primes mostly just existed, seeing very little combat. Not done yet with lancers, but nearly. Boots of levitation on the drake turned a loss into a draw, and was pretty handy. Not sure yet, but i think it might be just better to run drakes bare as mobile breath platforms and threat projection. 310 is alot for 15/17. Nimble on the ancients was very very convenient, but i think i was happier just running a beast pack in front and guaranteeing a frontal charge. On the flip side, they spent alot of time *not* doing anything. I really, really wish i put the sparkstone on something stupid. Against all those dragons it would have absolutely wrecked plans.
New list to consider for TNT (2150) Prime horde w/flying hammer Prime horde w/griffon banner Prime horde w/sparkstone Unblooded regiment w/warbow Unblooded regiment 2x Komodon 3x Lekilidon Herald w/boomstick 2x Flying fire drake lords w/fire oil Lots and lots of 5 defense nerve hold the line while shooting picks off problem pieces (and komodons pressure my opponents 24" ranged units) and drakes maneuver into flank positions (or play ring around the rosy while double breathing in concert with the monstrous shooters). My cav have been very hit or miss lately and ive had to play lots of "toe the threat range" games that i just cant win given speed 7/8 cav in a world of speed 10 flyers, so hopefully the sheer nerve and potential drake threats is enough to muscle my way through games.
Ended up taking this instead and going 4-2 prime horde w/banner prime regiment w/flying hammer ancients regiment ghekkotah warrior horde fire elemental horde w/sparkstone 3x komodon 2x lekelidon herald w/lute 2x winged drake lords w/fire oil Lesson's learned: Komodon's 36" range was pretty handy for forcing people's hands, but definitely feel a touch underpowered. Ancient regiments are solid but unremarkable tanks against no CS or CS1. Anything higher and they are a waste. The smaller footprint was handy, and im glad i didnt run lancers instead, as my battle line was fairly slow and depended on being generally tough. I was very happy with the 5 defense and likely wouldnt use the 2h version, as the toughness seems to be their strongpoint. Lancers are just plain better than 2h ancients. Ghekko warriors were acceptable, and excellent at receiving (and negating) high CS charges. I have high hopes for the 40 attack errata and will be running 2-3 hordes of these. Fire elementals were fine counter chargers and i didnt feel like i needed the surge. Sparkstone was fairly handy; it pushed back a green lady, disordered an elf dragon that was standing on an objective a few turns in a row, prevented a flying hero from hopping lines, stopped EOD healing and felt like a decent way to spend 10 points. For this tournament, we had a free custom hero model that had a 12" ranged attack similar to sparkstone that hit all unit types, so having 2x of these on the board was pretty handy. I wish i had run forces of nature and used Keris for a 3rd ranged disorder lol. Im very glad i took fire elementals instead of tyrants, as move 6 pathfinder outweighed the few times double timing would have mattered.
4-2 is a good result! Congratulations! My thoughts exactly on the FE vs Tyrants. MOvement 6 with Pathfinder seals the deal. Tyrants are too slow to work. I'm also looking forward to the 40 attacks Ghekkos, REALLY looking forward to that for sure.
Ran this to a pathetic 2-2-2 at ATC in Tennessee: 2500 points (at 2k, i would drop the allies, a komodon, and potentially alter the lancers and heralds lineup) Lycan horde 2x beast pack 2x ghekkotah horde 2x ancients on rhinos horde/pathfinder + blood of the old king Lancers regiment/+1 speed 3x komodon 2x lekilidon Flying drake lord herald/lute herald/mount and sparkstone Lesson's learned regarding the army: Ghekko hordes feel like an adequate replacement for prime hordes. +3 defense is a pseudo counter to +2 CS, the smaller size and faster speed was really really handy. I doubt I'll use prime hordes again, as their slow speed just saw them get flanked or outranged all game and huge footprint was just a pain in the ass. Once the 40 attack errata comes for the ghekkos, the primes will never be used again. Komodons were pretty meh but mostly did their jobs. The mounted herald with sparkstone surprised me. An adequate warmachine hunter and chaff piece, but the sparkstone really made life easier in most of my games. He tagged a phoenix, morgoth, idol of shebok, artillery, dragon kindred lord, and a supreme iron caster between chaffing duties and killing a few artillery pieces. Key is to not bet on it happening. In any case, ill be switching to Forces of Nature for a while, using most of the same models.
Figured id keep this moving as a record of what ive done. Played 6 rounds in the Discover GT in Fayatteville, GA and went 4-2 Using: 2x Prime hordes w/fire oil Wyrmrider horde w/nimble Centaur Hunters w/helm of the ram Druid w/+2 heals and BC 2x Winged Unicorns w/lightning bolt and Griffin Banner 3x Beast of nature w/lightning bolt, 7 attacks and vicious Failed to utilize the cav well, and lost the wyrmriders several times to bad placement and no inspire nearby. Everything else was great. Lost to goblins with 200+ shots and Abyssals w/5x tortured soul regiments and 4 demons.
Forge GT, NOV 11 in Birmingham, AL 2x prime hordes, elite/pendant shambler regiment, sparkstone 2x winged unicorn, lbolt 5 druid, mount, 4 heals, bloodboil 2x beast, lbolt 6, vicious 2x tortured soul regiments 4-1-1 Lost to hard to crack dwarves that had a bit of luck on their side, and drew against the same goblin shooty list that massacred me last time in a pillage game where we both sat on our sides of the table with 3 tokens apiece. I made some moves to contest one of his, but he could only ineffectively try and shoot me off against 14 heals.