Hello everyone, I am trying to build out a 2k Thunder Lizard list and I wanted to know what you might think. So here it is... Coalesced Thunder Lizard Leaders Lord Kroak Skink Starpriest Fusil of Conflaguration Hand of Glory EotG Units Skinks x20 (bolt spitters, daggers, bucklers) Skinks x20 (bolt spitters, daggers, bucklers) Stegadon w/ Skystreak Bow Stegadon w/ Sunfire Thrower Behemoth Bastilodon x2 w/ solar engine Bound Balewind Vortex This is not quite 2k points. I was considering a few things to change. 1) swapping Kroak for a Slann and adding another unit of 20 Skinks, or, 2) instead of the second unit of Skinks, add another Skink Starpriest to pair with the second unit of Skinks. 3) swap Kroak for Slann and maybe add a Salamander. Finally, 4) just add a bound Purple Sun of Shyish to the list. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
I am not an expert, but I feel that the Bastiladons may be among your weaker links here. I really want them to work but I feel they need a lot of help (either 3CPs a bastiladon, or 2CPs and a spell) to make them effective. At the very least I would consider a Skink Priest in your army to buff them a bit, and probably only keep one (which hurts me to say since before Battletome 2.0 I always dreamed of eventually getting a twin for my first one)
I am also not an expert. I am just coming back to AoS and my Seraphon after about a year hiatus. I was just looking at the Bastiladons with the Thunder Lizard command ability. I felt that 1 CP to add a second round of shooting was strong. So to possibly get 4 rounds of Solar Engine for 2 CP was pretty nice. I can add a Skink Priest to the original list and it will bring me to 1980 pts. Adds a little more versatility.
Quick mathhammer, assuming just the shoot twice CPs are used: 18 hits, 12w. Say, vs an elite-ish 4+ save unit: 6 go through, 12 damage. Vs an average 5+ unit, that’s still only 16 wounds, from 2 CP spent and almost 1/4 of your entire 2K army. You add Look Out, Sir, a Mystic Shield or other save buff, and that goes down dramatically. I hate it, but losing reroll wounds (or even reroll all hits) makes them essentially useless. And their melee output is straight up depressing.
It’s sad but I see the soundness of your argument. I have changed this list and removed the bastilodons. I have added instead 1 more stegadon with sunfire thrower, another starpriest to go with second unit of skinks and a Salamander hunting pack with 2 Salamanders...comes to 1990 pts. Thoughts on this?
Starpriests are pretty worthless unless you are running 40 blocks of skinks, you just aren't going to get the out put with 20s
I wouldnt give up on Basti's that easily. All that math is true, but you're not taking into account so many factors: -Bastis in Thunderlizard have 12 wounds +1 save -All those wounds are 29 inches. Range is huge. -We have tons of ways to generate CPs and Aetherquartz broach can get them back -100% need Skink Priest for +1 to hit "Makes them essentially useless" is a very strong in my opinion. I think they are still great and you can 100% make them work.
they are distraction carnifexes at the worst. focusing on them is not smart for your opponent, but ignoring 36 ranged attacks (that hit from outside charging range of most units!) a turn is not an option either.
Combine it with our other ranged mortal wounds and you have legit long range threats that your opponent has to deal with.
So many good points. I was trying to utilize the models that I have currently without having to pick up a bunch more. I know I’m gonna grab more stegadons but still. I’ll continue to look at it more. I think I may combine the skinks into a block of 40 to best utilize the Star priest. I’ll at least try a few games with the bastilodons to see how they play. Any suggestions of good spells/artifacts to pair with them?
6 on mortals if the skinks are not in range of the ability (or dead) +1 to hit, shoot again, they cant take artifacts.
I may have been a bit harsh in my assessment, but I am not sure that one could make a strong cas for two in a list... for 220 pts we simply have so much more to offer now, is the thing. I will play a few games with one, using it to harass select targets at range, or to keep him as a juicy target up front, a la “distraction carnifex”
Ok, if you really want to run bastiladons, you can make them work. First of all, decide, you'll have to drop stegadons. Or bastiladons. You won't have enough resources to buff them all. And stegadons are meh in combat without any bonuses, tbh. Or if you still want them, don't expect much. Then, take thunderquake battalions. You will both greatly increase mobilty and gain 1 more artefact slot. You really need the latter for Aetherquartz brooch. You'll need at least 1 hunting pack or 3 kroxigors for it in your current list. Exchange starpriest for a priest. Starpriests are great in any list, but priest is more important because of his command ability. Straightforward +1 to-hit is essencial. You can even take two priests, since one can die. You have to protect priests at all costs. They are the key support unit. Make priest the general and give them masters of star rituals. You also can take burning head for rerolling 1's to-hit. It is a bit tricky to use, but worth it. Here, you bathe in CP now. Buff your bastiladons with herald of the old ones (+1 to-hit rolls), all-out volley (reroll 1's to-hit) and trove of the old ones technology (double shooting). Use all-out defence if needed. You should have enough cp, unless you'll get crappy rolls, but it is a dice game after all. Now basties actually have teeth. Your opponen cannot kill them fast, because 2+ rerollable (unless they have tons of mortal wounds, of course) and they cannot ignore them, because basties actually will HURT. Just don't spend CP on stuff you don't really need and you should be fine. EDIT: You cannot make EotG general in TL and give him other traits, except Prime Warbeast. Completely forgot about it.
Our strongest lists are 120 skinks, 12 salamanders, 24 terradons, etc. etc. Not everyone can or want to play it. Non-optimal =/= non-viable.
but why not a FoS list with 40 skinks, 3 Salamanders, 9-12 terradons, a buffed skink chief, and Kroak on a balewind casting tonnes of spells? There is still room there for other supports and “hammers” as well. We can mix and match our strong units rather than spamming one type. The nice thing is that majority of our buffs can be used across a swath of units.
We can, of course, but my point was that we don't always need to get fully optimized list to do well. Even when we compete. We can take razordons instead of salamanders and still do very well. If someone wants to run bastiladons and win, he absolutely can.
This is not been my experience at all, I'm talking stegs over bastis every day, they are the mvp of the book
Have the exact opposite experience. I'm judging on EotG, but it have the same stats as default steg, except bow/flamers, if I'm not missing anything. I guess, it is the matter of dice. I don't think that it is worth to take a bastiladon outside of Thunder Lizard, however.