AoS Thunderquake Battalion Thunder Lizard Coalesced 2k Krox

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
Engine of the Gods (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
- Spell: Hand of Glory

Battleline
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
- Lances
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow

Units
6 x Kroxigor (280)
- 2x Moonhammers

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 93

Hey, it's Kroxigor guy again. I've been trying to solve the puzzle of how best to use Kroxigors. Knowing they key off the SKINK keyword I've been trying to build them around Skink lists. It occurred to me the big dinosaurs are 1) Skinks and 2) fit into the Thunderquake Battalion.

What does this do?

1) It gives the SKINK keyword on MELEE minded units, which is where Kroxigors want to be. Charging them together maintain the wholly within 6'' more easily.

2) Being Coalesced it grants all of the above +1 jaws attacks.

3) The Thunderquake Battalion gives the ability to run and still shoot and charge, or +1 melee attacks. This is huge because Kroxigors are essentially isolated from the rest of the book so far as buffs go. Only generic SERAPHON buffs work because they are neither skink nor saurus so it's difficult to actively buff them.

I suppose the idea behind the list is to hopefully generate a lot of CP with Kroak, and then dump that CP into double using the EOTG for healing. This is my second idea, to be honest. I've done the sims in the image attached. I can squeeze a lot more damage from my list going Stega-Chief. With Kroak and starting with 2 CP I could potentially dump 3 CP per Stegadon making them terrifying monsters. I did the sims MERELY with the following in mind:

1) Thunderquake Battalion in Savage (+1 Melee Attack) Mode.

2) Coalesced Jaws Bonus (+1 jaws attack)

3) Stegadon Command Ability (+1 SKINK UNIT melee attacks)

4) Thunder Lizard Command Trait (+1 mount attacks)

5) Chief Helmet Artefact (+1 damage to melee weapons)

No other buffs included.

This begs the question: Do I bother with a defensive grinding build using LORD KROAK with Apotheosis hoping for +10 casts and double EOTG heals, or do I simply say screw it and go fully offensive and make terrifying juggernauts fully dedicated to destruction?

Now the third thing I've debated is that originally I had 3 sets of 10 skinks. Then I set them to 30 block of skinks. Then I decided perhaps just Saurus Knights. Is this a fast calvary style alpha strike turn 1 charge list? Do I have the speed for that? It appears I very much WANT the charge rather than to BE charged. I don't know that this list is particularly hardy. This cycles back to: If I build for EOTG double-heal (it's random and maybe I don't get it when I need it) and Apotheosis, often things die in 1 turn anyway...I've found it's rarer for big monsters to actually survive long enough to be healed (MBMK, Bloodthirster, to name a few I've personal first hand experience with). Perhaps simply going full offense would be the smarter choice.

So do my Knights contribute to my offense in any meaningful way, or do I simply take the Skink Chaff and throw them on objectives... this list is clearly not great at the objective game, per se.

Any thoughts or feedback?

 

The Stegadon Helm doesn't give a bonus to damage to the Engine of the Gods. In the FAQ they added a skink priest to the engines profile, who has no separate role, but is the hero to whom magic items bonuses apply, making the Stegadon a mount.

Other then that I kind of like it. I've been working on similar ideas myself as I like Kroxigors, and big dinosaurs, and while it may not be the most effective army I feel something like that should be fun to play.

 

Ah I missed the *just* melee weapons thing. Makes you wonder if another, different artefact may in fact be better. Although I do love the +1 to save to make him a bit more tanky. As for the EOTG, for sure a better artefact then. I didn't realize it was WEAPONS only and not melee attacks.

 

I also have the room to drop a unit of skinks taking it to 2 units of 10, or 1 unit of 20 and squeezing in a Skink Priest. His command ability grants +1 to hit rolls. His regular ability on a 3+ grants the ability to run and charge and shoot (somewhat redundant with Thunderquake), and +1 to save rolls.

This can be used on a Engine of the Gods, Stegadon Skink Chief, or Stegadon to hit on 2+, and have +1 to save rolls making them 3+ or possibly 2+ if their special warscrolls ability triggers increasing offense and defense.

There’s some wiggle room and some things can be moved around but I’ve got the general idea I think

 

Skystreak bows are alright, but your damage is really from melee attacks. Assuming you play with objectives, you really need to consider how to split your army in at least 2 isolated groups since you cant just ball everything up and expect to win unlike armies with huge ranged output.

I think the beauty in Kroxigors is that they dont rely on piles of buffs, they just somewhat work even naked. I would probably put those + Starpriest on a flank and run them up to threaten a side objective.

I dont like the Knights. Feels like a waste without proper support. As you mentioned yourself, I would much rather see Skink screens for those points. Skinks are just as fast at grabbing objectives anyways.

I personally feel it is a huge mistake not to include at least 1 Bastiladon in TL. Getting +2 wounds on big dinos is “ok”, but the reason to go TL is the double tap imo. If you plan to heal loads then Bastiladon makes even more sense since you can heal it to the top bracket again and again.

You really have no bodies (30 Skinks over Knights will help) but your general idea seems to be to push everything forward with Kroak on a balewind + Astrolith chilling at home alone. I feel like armies with teleport/deepstrike is gonna be a huge threat. Kroak is just a sitting frog waiting to be wiped out.

 

Wow thanks for the feedback! You’re right and I ended up changing the list back to 3 sets of 10 skinks.

you’re also right in that the idea is to just push everything forward. I guess it would play a bit like Ogres in that sense. It never occurred to me that Kroak would be vulnerable to deep strike. I don’t know what to do about that.

I could try a Bastiladon. Honestly I was trying to double down on the Melee aspect because in my mind you charge the Stegadon and the Kroxigors into the same thing and that gives them their +1 to hit.

also I have no idea how to sim the flamethrowers so I simply concluded Skystreak bows must be at least stable and provide a bit of character sniping- again like BCR with the vulture throw.

It seems inevitable this list would lack bodies. I don’t know if this is anywhere close to tournament worthy and probably not but I’m trying to min/max my favorite unit Kroxigors the best way I can think of.

 

So I guess the second draft looks a bit like this?

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

Leaders
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
Skink Starpriest (120)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
- Spell: Celestial Harmony
Engine of the Gods (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

Battleline
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
Stegadon (240)
- Weapon: Sunfire Throwers

Units
6 x Kroxigor (280)
- 2x Moonhammers

Behemoths
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

Oh and for what it’s worth the group I play with is HEAVILY objective focused. Playing the 18 maps from GHB and CRB. It’s basically an entirely objective game. We have all kinds in our meta. Orruk Warclans of many varieties, all of the chaos armies, SCE and IDK and Sylvaneth. OBR... just a lot of variety. Many people have more than 1 army. BCR/OMT. Just loads of variety. Quite often hordes too (80 Orruk Arrowboyz, 90 Daemonettes, 200 clan rats (lol), 80 plaguemonks, etc...)

 

With my Dracothian’s Tail list the idea is to drag out the game and let the opponent come to me to open up to be hit with a deepstrike teleport, so Balewind on Kroak makes sense since I wont really move too far away and rather play according to my opponent.

If you want to march forward, I would probably skip out on the Balewind, since the battle by default will be taking place far away. This would make Kroak more mobile. I would also consider 5 Guards to screen him/zone out deepstrike abilities or just soak up wounds in general.

With the trait on the EotG you kind of want him in melee, but imo the 3 dice (being close to Kroak) is significantly stronger. This is abit conflicting.

I was watching this bat rep the other day and thought it was interesting. The Terradons are honestly terrible without a Chief, so I would remove those and put your Kroxigors in. I think the Thunderquake batallion is questionable - The range on Stegadons and Bastiladons are already rather high, so adding run is kinda so-so. I get you are trying to pile on every possible buff on the Kroxigors, but I think the cost is too high considering the value.

Quite often the Slann didnt have any worthwhile third spell to cast, so I think Kroak is a solid upgrade, not only for the extra chance of CP but also survivability and extra valuable spell.


Oh and I would certainly take the Skystreak Bow over the flamethrower any day of the week. Being able to snipe heroes/soften up units prior to being charged is great.

 

Well, being as I come from an Ironjawz point of view, it seems natural to basically have the shooting as a nice bonus (don't have any of that), and the magic (have a bit but it's...pretty bad. Weirdknob is decidedly an overpriced bad wizard). So my natural proclivity is okay so everyone runs and then we get a turn 1 or turn 2 charge and smash face with 3 Stegadons and Kroxigors and the skinks just stay back and squat on objectives and then try not to die due to the tagging system. I guess. I've never played with anything like skinks before..

Edit: I was also thinking the skystreak bows may be useful for sniping heroes, before the charge. I had always planned on utilizing the Stegadons as a melee platform over a shooting platform, and probably keeping the EOTG away from the Slann in order for a better chance at healing tbh.

 

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

Leaders
Lord Kroak(320)
-Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
Engine of the Gods(260)
-General
-Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
-Artefact: Sacred Stegadon Helm
Skink Starpriest(120)
-Spell: Celestial Harmony
Saurus Astrolith Bearer(140)

Battleline
10 x Skinks(60)
-Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks(60)
-Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard(100)
Stegadon(240)
-Weapon: Skystreak Bow

Units
6 x Kroxigor(280)
-2x Moonhammers

Behemoths
Bastiladon(220)
-Weapon: Solar Engine

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host(150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point(50)

Total:2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points:2
Allies:0 / 400
Wounds:103

After Feedback, something more similar to this? Of course there's always the opposite end of pure aggression with a Stegadon Skink Chief, like I've mentioned previously. I guess that would look like dropping the extra Cp, upgrading to Stega Chief, that leaves 40 points and maybe going with Balewind anyway? Or perhaps something else for 40 points to fill?

 

Honestly, I'd just drop stegdon in favor of another bastiladon. Bastiladons are better at everything but melee. And for melee you already have kroxigors. And you will get just 70 points to take skink priest. His ability is very good on bastiladons.

 

The entire idea of the list was to utilize the Kroxigors as a sort of "hammer" along-side other melee oriented Skink Units that want to be stuck in so that they synergize for the wholly within 6 giving Kroxigors the +1 bonus to hit as easily and naturally as possible.

If I'm running 2 Bastiladons and at this point nothing wants to get stuck in melee...why have Kroxigors? This flips the entire list on its head into... I guess a defensive list that doesn't want to charge or be charged? idk. How would you play double bastiladon with Kroxigors?

 

Well, why not to stuck in with bastiladons? I'd say, that Stegadons and bastiladons are similar in total damage ouput. The difference is Stegadon is melee-oriented while Bastiladons do the job in shooting. And bastiladons win in thunder lizards because of shooting twice. And bastiladons are way better at soaking damage. You can throw a bastiladon into melee and won't be afraid for them to degrade before their activation. Furthermore, thy are 20pts cheaper, which would allow you another character in this list.

Yes, their shooting attacks will be limited to a single target they are in melee with, but same is with Stegadon. But unlike stegadons, they are way more dangerous in moments when they are not in combat.

And bastiladons =/= defensive. I tend to use them aggressively in my thunderquake lists. I ran forward and charge with them, tying enemy units in place. I just make sure that I charge units I'll want to shoot it in the next round.

 

It feels too resource intensive to make Bastiladons good based on what I'm simming with the stats-hammer app.

This is their damage if I apply the following buffs:
1) Use a CP to get Re-Roll Hit Rolls of 1
2) Use a CP to get +1 to hit via Skink Priest
3) Use a CP to Shoot Twice (I included the meteoric javelins, tail and solar engine as though I'd charged it in and shot that which I was in melee with)



The second image is that in which I spent no CP on the Bastiladon. The only buff is from switching from swift to savage in melee with the Thunderquake Battalion, the same as the Stegadons.



I used no CP on any Stegadons. The EOTG is buffed via 1) Primal Warbeast Command trait 2) Thunderquake Battalion in attack mode 3) The Great Drake hero constellation. The Stegadons just is buffed via Thunderquake, as really I don't have many buffs except a +1 to save, +1 to save and fly, and maybe some magic or generic command abilities. I just wanted to see them almost naked for understanding and slowly layered on the free (no CP) buffs I could switch on and off.

I'll try the list both ways though, or rather...all 3? Stega Chief Skink/2 Stega, EOTG/2 Stega, EOTG/2 Bastiladon

 

What buffs are you assuming on the Kroxigors to get those kind of numbers?

 

6 Kroxigors:
1) 4 with Drakebite Maul
2) 2 with Moon Hammers getting 6 attacks each
3) re-roll hit rolls of 1 and
4) wholly within 6'' of a SKINK keyword unit
5) Thunderquake Battalion Attack Mode (+1 to attack)
6) Coalesced Jaws buff (+1 to jaws attacks)

Why am I confident I can get 6 attacks with Moon Hammers? In my local meta people are running 90 daemonettes, 200 clan rats, 80 plague monks, 80 savage orruk arrowboyz, 60 Ardboyz/Orruks, loads of bloodreavers, blobs of 10 Horrors of Tzeetch, etc.

There are some smaller model count armies which this may not be the case such as Ogors, SCE, Idoneth Deepkin, etc.. However for whatever reason I seem to be in a super horde meta

 

Numbers are good, however, the table is a table.

You count the damage like Stegadon and bastiladon are exactly in the same conditions. In fact, there's a key difference - most of the bastiladons damage are ranged and most of the stegadon's damage are melee. This means that:

1) Bastiladon has all chances to deal most of his potential damage from turn 1, while stegadon will only be able to shoot from the bow
2) In melee, if you don't activate the stegadon first, it has all chances to suffer some damage and degrade, further reducing its effectiveness. Bastiladon, on the other hand, can easily soak most of the damage, depending on attacking unit. Anyway, everything that can hurt the bastiladon, will shred the stegadon.
3) Higher survivability means that bastiladon will make more damage during the course of a game, because it will be active for more turns.

All the bastiladons need are CP. Reroll 1's are not essential. The most importnant is to have 2 CP every round to shoot twice. If you take a priest with MoSR trait, you will have +1 to-hit for free every turn too. But more importantly, where else do you need this resources? Kroak will throw bonus CP every round and starpriest has chances too. Kroxigors may only benifit from reroll's to-hit and you will have Hand of Glory for them anyway. Reroll 1's for saves won't really save them anyway. Maybe, for auto-passing battleshock too, but they have to be hit really hard in one turn for that to be triggered.

THAT's too much investment, IMO. I think, prime warbeast is a bit of a waste. Yes, it give some damage to EotG, but utility traits are always better. I think, Skink priest with Master of the Star Rituals is the best investment in thuderquake, because you will have free +1 to-hit where you need it. EotG is not very durable. It is decent combatant, but not a thing you want in your frontlines. It's cosmic engine will yield you more. Same with Sacred Stegadon helm. 3+, even 2+ save won't save EotG from true damage dealers. I was able to remove archaon in 2+ save, reroll 6's to-hit and 6+ shrug in single shooting phase. EotG doesn't stand even closer. On the other hand, Aetherquartz Brooch from Hysh Would provide you with more CP, which you can use, once again, for doube shooting. morale auto-pass, reroll 1's, etc. Once again, bonuses which you will be able to use anywhere you need too.

If you want more survivability for EotG, at least take the Cloak of feathers. It will make EotG more mobile.

I won't look at Stega Chief, unless I run 80 skinks with clubs. Simply not worth it.

 

in regards to your Stega chief comment... no way mate, skink chief on steg is bonkers watch @Caleb ex nihilo video on it. ive been saying the same things since the book came out. it in no way requires a horde of melee skinks to be good.

 

One of the iterations of this list I've been strongly considering has been essentially:

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Lord Kroak(320)
-Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
Skink Starseer(140)
-Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
-Spell: Celestial Harmony
Stegadon with Skink Chief(270)
-General
-Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
-Artefact: Cloak of Feathers
Saurus Astrolith Bearer(140)

Battleline
10 x Skinks(60)
-Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks(60)
-Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks(60)
-Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
Stegadon(240)
-Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Stegadon(240)
-Weapon: Skystreak Bow

Units
6 x Kroxigor(280)
-2x Moonhammers

Battalions
Thunderquake Temple-host(150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex(40)

Total:2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points:1
Allies:0 / 400
Wounds:102

 

I dont hate this list at all. I would personally swap the 2 Stegadons for 2 Bastiladons + Bound Burning Head to soften up targets from range and as we talked about before I personally find TL kinda wasted without the double tap on Bastiladons. But hey, if you really want to roll with some Steggys, go for it man.