Hey guys, rookie here. I'm a new Lizardmen player, I've been playing Dark Elves for years. I was wondering what you guys think of this army list? I'm still playing 8th edition. Slann Mage Priest 300 points Saurus Scar Veteran Light Armour, Shield and Spear on Carnosaur with Egg of Quango 342 points Saurus Warriors unit of 35 Warriors Standard Bearer, Musician, Banner of Eternal Flames 415 points Temple Guard unit of 21 Standard Bearer, Musician, Banner of Armour Piercing 359 points Bastiladon 150 points Stegadon with solar engine unstoppable stampede and sharpened horns 245 points Skink Skirmishers unit of 10 70 points Skink Skirmishers unit of 10 70 points Cold One Riders Standard Bearer, Musician and Pack Leader 240 points I'm at 2191 in points. I'm going up against Orcs and Goblins. Should I go with a Sarus Scar Veteran? Or should I use up those points on another larger unit? Should I add a Mage Priest for more magic? What do you guys think? Thanks in advance!!!!
Awesome! I love making lists! I’ll chew on everything, but the first thing that jumps out at me is the lack of protection of you SV. He only has two wounds and I would definitely give him some kind of ward save. Let me have a chew on the rest.
Okay, so starting from the top down: Your Slann is easily the most important part of your army. Making the TG stubborn (combined with Cold-Blooded rule) means they're not likely to go anywhere. We are also the only army where the general can also be the BSB. For 25 points you get +1 combat res and can re-roll the above leadership test if you fail. This means two times to roll under 9 on 3 dice, almost as good as unbreakable. Definitely worth 25 points. Plus you can (if you want) have TWO magic banners for the same unit... I don't think that's necessary against O&G's. Then, the Disciplines... take a look through these. They will definitely give you the edge in the magic phase. I would particularly recommend Becalming Cogitation and either Focus of Mystery or Wandering Deliberations. Take a look at both and choose the one that will fit with you battle tactics. You definitely need to decide on a strategy before you go on. Do you want to hit one flank hard and turn inwards? Use Saurus blocks to receive a charge and then use dinos to flank them? This will affect what you choose for the army and also what spells you should take. The magic lores have been covered very well in the forum already by @Scalenex I'll post the link when done here. On the Scar Vet/Carnosaur, definitely get a ward save as they are very squishy and I would highly recommend Blood Roar if you're going up against O&Gs who have notoriously low leadership. The carno's look great on paper, but with their low WS they don't do as well in combat as you think they will (due to rank bonuses, steadfast, etc.) as a support unit they are great. I wouldn't take Egg of Quango as it is very hit or miss. Up to you. You don't say which Bastiladon you are taking, but definitely do the Solar Engine (Solardon ) The Stegadon with EotG (I'm assuming you mean this as he can't take Solar Engine) is fine, but considering you have only two Skink Skirmisher units I would take Giant Blowpipes. Why: you already have a slann and Solar Engine, you won't have enough points to get your money's worth from this. The GB will help against mangler Squigs, fanatics, spider riders and a host of other chaff units that will be heading your way to slow down your units and isolate them so the O&G can gang up on them. Alternatively, drop the Bastiladon, get more Saurus and use the EotG with a Slann using Light Magic or one of the other 8 lores. This way you will be able to use the -1 casting cost rule as well, then the EotG becomes worthwhile. Especially if you team it up with a Saurus unit with Spears so they have a 6+ ward save and attack in 3 ranks. I would personally not use the CO riders. They are not worth their points. INVEST in another Stegadon or a couple of salamanders (don't forget that Salamanders force a panic test if any wounds are suffered, you want to exploit the low O&G leadership whenever possible). The only other detail, is you need to have a plan in place in case your opponent has a large Trolls unit... With their Regeneration and 3 attacks for all supporting attack troops, strength 5 they are VERY anti-lizardmen. Plus if he does River Trolls, it's -1 to hit(!?!?!) which makes them very, very dangerous. You can do Salamanders with flame, followed up by Skink's with Javelins or a Banner of Flaming whatever it is on a unit. Above all, make it a fun list and have fun doing the battle!
Orc and Goblins always outnumber me. If I take a charge and try and flank a unit he will just double flank me. I always had success using Cold One Riders (but that was Dark Elves) especially on the charge. I'm going to need to invest in more models. I do not have any Salamanders models and it sounds like these are a must in a game. Definitely will use GB on those Squigs, fanatics, spider riders, they are a pain in the butt.
Chakax is not worth his points unfortunately. Initiative 3 means even with his opponent getting ASL as well means he's gonna be hitting last most of the time. 5++ is great, but he only get's it in a challenge. Gor-Rok is okay, but no ward save is a problem. I like his magic items, but he's still not worth the points. Too many things have S6 (Black Orcs using GW's for instance) and then it's 4's to wound and his 2+ armour save is now 5+. I love both their lore, but it's much better to design your own. SV's need protection as 2 wounds is really not a lot.
Chakax is one of the most over-costed special characters in the game. I would never field him. Gor-Rok is pretty decent. Not our best character, but his ability to make his unit Stubborn is useful. Plus, he is good at generating predatory fighter bonus attacks. I prefer a generic Scar-Vet build myself, but Gor-Rok is a fine addition to an army.
I find him a bit too squishy... Somehiw even with T6 and a 2+ armour save, in my last game he was almost killed by a nobody Goblin Hero... probably my horrendous luck in challenge dice rolling.
He is definitely not a character killer. If you go up against S6+, he gets into trouble quickly. Plus his S5 will fail him when going up against combat characters. He is there to make your Saurus Warriors unit better and to take out enemy troops.
I think I would still use a custom SV to give a ward save and GW... Maybe if he was with another character who could respond to challenges?
Like I said, I go with custom built Scar-Vets myself. Having multiple characters as you mentioned, gets very expensive.
In your experience is Gor-Rok a fun character to field. Would you field a SV and Gor-Rok in a 2250 point game?
I prefer to have my Scar-Vets mounted on Cold Ones; so personally, I'd rather field two custom SVs over a SV + Gor-Rok. At a 2250 points game, those points run out pretty quick. There is no way I would fit the two of them in there after I spend a bunch of points on my Slann (who I always field).
Yeah, those points add up very quickly. Cold Ones unit over Carnosaur? Carnosaur looks fun, but will be a shooting target nightmare.
I'm fully with Nightbringer on a) always fielding a Slan when possible (in a TG unit, you'll appreciate the Stubborn rule) and b) using custom SV's. Against O&G's, I'd take two both given a ward save item, Great Weapons and Cold Ones to get them to a 1+ Armour Save. Yum yum. Since we we'll almost always be striking last due to initiative, give them the GW and watch them carve through most infantry and a lot of characters to boot. Plus with the CO they can't be stomped, so they become good monster killers as well (apart from Giants, who need to be killed from afar). You mentioned the Arachnarok Spider? Give one of your boys a Cold One, GW, some ward save and glittering scales and watch the fun. You could do Fencers Blades with the other plus a ward, CO, etc. But it's not as effective. Glittering Scales is a very powerful item in my opinion (especially combined with Lord Kroak in the unit, -2 to hit? Yes please!)
I love the Carnosaur model and the fluff, but unless you're going up against Ogres or some other high wound army, I would say take some CO riders as abus for your SV (and to give them Look Out Sir).
It isn't even the shooting thing (I'm assuming you're referring to Large Target), it's that their low WS means that they do way less actual damage in close combat than you think they will. Average 2-3 attacks will hit, Thunderstomp can be great, but can also suck. If you're against a big unit you can have a lot of problems with combat resolution. They can do well on support or against multiple wound enemies where their D3 wounds comes into play.
This is why I wanted to use the Egg of Quango, unfortunately that is only one use. I wanted to try and flank any bolt or rock throwers that my enemies will have, and then try and charge from the rear. I'm sure he will just try and prevent that. For now I'm going to try and list and new army with a hard hitting Cold One unit.