waitwaitwait... Patrotism is a thing, nationalism is a different beast. Patriotism is basically national loyalty. I critique my nation or the way it's run, but i still defend it. Nationalism is an extreme and deviated form of patriotism, basically the government is right, and the interests of your nation superseed interests of all nations. I can be a patriot and I will gladly join the NATO. A nationalist hates NATO. Past (and actual) regimes merge the fervor of nationalism with the concept of superiority, especially when it comes to ethnicity and religion. In such contexts, “patriots” can become those who happened to agree with you or look like you, and “traitors” those who do not. And a real patriot can be labeled as enemy of the nation.
i think the point was more that jan 6th was a direct attack to the institution of the USA democracy. As symbolic act, it's bigger than riots / destructions / killing.
i don't know too much about Corbyn, so i need to ask. When you say "communist", do you mean real communist? because i see (at least in USA, but also in Italy), a LOT of confusion. Many address the leftists with the term comminism, which is far from the truth as callin nazi Ben Shapiro. Western leftists follow an agenda that: - cares about LGBT rights. In real communist countries, those kind of people are heavily persecuted. - cares about movements as BLM and students protests, and tend to minimize social disorders caused by them. Commies deal with these by sending tanks. - critiques traditions of the nation, especially the "patriotic" ones. Commies literally exalt those. - intellectuals and artists are top class. Free thinking is a no-way in commies countries. i can go on.
I don’t need your pity. Indeed your pity is a bit of an insult, and I feel sad for you too for wanting to be ashamed of your own country, and pitying others who are not. Feeling shame at deeds that were done hundreds of years ago with different ideals will also get us nowhere. Indeed it will make us more vulnerable to the Chinese with their dogmatic regimes making them nationalistic (as communism and nationalism tend to be at the opposite ends of the political horseshoe and end up becoming almost one and the same). I imagine some of your views are also based on straight-up lies, thanks to the brainwashing operations of the Left. As you said yourself, there are two sides to every argument. However, that’s your opinion, and at least you have the gallantry to be largely good-mannered about this, so I will pay you the same courtesy. Besides, talking about Warhammer is more fun than talking about politics. I agree 100%, I’m happy to live in the UK and have a great fondness for much of our national history, but I’m not a Nazi. The Nazis were vile mass murderers. Modern extreme right wing groups such as National Action are also without a doubt evil, and can ironically be traitors to their country (what sick bastard in Britain would have posters of Wehrmacht soldiers in their bedroom?). I merely have a strong respect for my country, that is all. To be honest, when a human resorts to behaviour like this, he becomes something less than human. Killing an animal to eat because there’s nothing else is one thing, but killing it just to cut specific parts off and leave the rest to go to waste is abhorrent. Only animals with a malign intelligence like cats and sometimes dolphins do things like that. I would never do such a thing, even if my family was on the breadline, and a lot of Africans don’t either - most of them just work on farming the land as they have done for countless years, and if they’re lucky they get by. Europeans also endured this lifestyle for hundreds of years, and everyone, whether European or African or from any other nation, always has a choice - to live an honest life and be the best person they can be, or to live a criminal life and become a monster. However, you are right in that providing greater education can encourage Africa’s children to develop more of a respect for the animals they share the Savannah with, and increase their chances of living a benign life of protecting animals, rather than a cursed life of killing them.
I suppose Corbynites are neo-Communists rather than actual communists, but they certainly are anti-Semitic. And the left wing in Britain, Corbynite or not, certainly encourages social disorders caused by riots and protests rather than minimises it, and works on smothering freedom of speech, which certainly whiffs of Communism.
So the counterpoint here is "visibility" and symbolism? That's like saying a zit on one's face is worse than an early stage diagnosis of pancreatic cancer. The zit is front and center for all to see, while the presence of the cancer is more obscured (at least for the time being). I can recognize the lesser of two evils. The Jan 6th yahoos literally achieved nothing outside of delaying the proceedings for a few hours. Some of them might have had extremely bad intentions but ultimately nothing substantial came of it (outside of the valid symbolism that you pointed out). A stain on America's image, although bad, is a far cry from the loss of life and property that BLM caused. Outside of the direct damage I already mentioned earlier, here is some BLM/ANTIFA symbolism: attacked courthouses (which is an attack on the legal institution of the USA) toppled/defaced statues (historical symbols of the country) threatened riots if the verdict of the Derek Chauvin trial was not to their liking (attack on the validity of the legal system) literally took over a couple of blocks of Seattle to form the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone, a.k.a. CHAZ (within which US law and rule was completely suspended) Couple all that together and it is easily worse than some inbred moron wearing a buffalo headdress (and his friends) taking stupid pictures in the capital building. One is really bad, the other is much worse (BLM).
Just to be on the same boat: i totally agree with you. But the world spoke much more about the january event than about all the rest combined, although i agree the rest combined carries much more weight and real consequences.
Agreed. But that only proves @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl 's point on the media (for the most part) being nothing more than an extension/mouthpiece of leftist ideology. Look at how hard the leftist media works to frame things: They are not reporting news and facts as they occur, but rather carefully and purposefully spinning a narrative. Sadly, they are often quite successful at it, which brings us back around to your point on the world focusing more on the January 6th debacle. Is it any wonder with such forces at work?
Wow after a long time with me just posting video links, we get some good meaty discussion that still stays respectful. I will go over the individual points later in a lengthy reply. I think I will cover something in broad strokes that gets pointed out a lot. Not just here. The internet has created a click bait-y atmosphere where people exaggerate things to extremes for views. I take that back. If you look up "yellow journalism" you will see that exaggerating statements for views is a very old practice. Note, yellow journalism is not a racial slur. He refers to when the cheapest newspapers were printed on yellowish paper. It was observed that the cheaper newspapers relied on shock value and sensationalism to sell papers. One is modern aspect of sensationalism is to call all Right wingers fascists (or Nazis) and to call all Left wingers communists. This is wrong. But it's not 100% wrong. It's not likely, but it is possible that the Republicans can pave the way for authoritarians or the Democrats can pave the wave for collectivists. We need each party to watch the other side like a hawk and call out their BS. There is a point where Far Left and Far Right people go too far. Communist and fascist governments begin within moderate parties. The hard part is figuring out at which point one side goes too far. This is why for all of it's flaws, I think the two party system is better anything else I can think of (other than Scalenexism which of course is a perfect system as all well prosper under my benevolent rule). I don't believe in in a left-right dichotomy anyway. Especially because of the so-called horseshoe theory that at the extremes Far Right and Far Left look near indistinguishable because Far Right governments control social actions so thoroughly that it clamps down on the economy and Far Left governments control economic actions so thoroughly that it. I believe in a triangle with the three points being Freedom, Order, and Equality (all good things). That it in order to gain some freedom you have give up some Order and Equality and visa versa. I think the happiest and most prosperous societies lean heavily towards Freedom, but throughout history Freedom is the rarest type because it gets pulled towards collectivism (equality) or authoritarianism (order). Most collectivism nations end up turning to authoritarianism eventually. Throughout history most governments have been authoritarian. That said, communism is more personally scary to me because in the 20th and 21st century, despite only being in a handful of nations, communists have killed a lot more people than authoritarians. I don't have as much deep thoughts on this, but I'm not sure where the line between patriotism and nationalism is. I suppose too much patriotism can be a bad thing, but I think a lack of patriotism can be just as bad or even worse. Humans are tribal by nature and left to their own devices, they will drift towards a group identity of some sort. In some ways a national identity is safer than most. Paraphrasing a discussion I saw elsewhere, multiculturism only works within a shared framework. In order for African Americans, Native Americans, Anglo Americans, Indian Americans and all the other ethnicities to benefit from the cultural diversity of each other they all have to be Americans (or Canadians or Germans whatever). If you don't agree on a national identity, each different group is going to balkanize and fight. If even one group is not willing adopt a "live and let live" to other cultures you will inevitably get violence.
Yay! That is my central thesis. I would say the Left is more dangerous right now. I don't think the Left is more dangerous forever and always. The suppressing of free speech is what is important. During the George W. Bush years, the Right was trying to suppress free speech. In short, the side that is suppressing speech is always wrong. That doesn't mean that the people they suppressing are automatically right. It's possible for multiple people to be wrong. The slurs of calling someone a Nazi, homophobe, sexist, etc is part of language control. SIGN language. Shame, Insults, Guilt, and a Need to be right. That's what you use when facts and logic aren't on your side. There is also the issue that if you use an insult too much, it loses meaning. This is already happening with "racism." If everyone is a racist than it means actual racists get a free pass. At this point, real racists don't mind being called racists. Note, when it comes to the US-Mexico border, I'm on the fence, metaphorically speaking. I don't know if I want a closed border or an open border and I don't know how I want to do it. But I do know that not everyone who wants a tighter border is automatically a racist. If people keep saying that, than the only people who will be willing to join the immigration debate will be the actual racists. I do not follow British politics very closely but this much is obvious/\ I cannot say with certainty if the Labour Party are neo-Communists or not. The BLM started with good intentions but it's out of control, and no one seems to get punished for the burning, looting, and murders. Whatever your movement or group is, you have to police your own group for bad actors! I'm not sure if colonialism was the greatest evil ever perpetrated by humans or not. I would say slavery was worst. Slavery predated the colonial era and lasted much longer (there was overlap). It doesn't really matter, there it's not a competition. If anything the past evils of slavery and exploitive colonialism is important from a "never again" stand point. The CCP is doing both of those things right now. As for what to do about the great evils perpetrated long before I was born. I don't know. It is possible that an evil action, evil person, or evil group can do something good. I'm not saying the Autobahn makes all of Hitler's evils worth it...far from it. But I am saying we shouldn't dismantle the Autobahn as a symbolic attack on the Nazis. On a similar note, colonialization accomplished some good things. Not every African nation is a place of misery. Some of them are modern and prosperous and they wouldn't have gotten to where they are without Western technology. Does it justify colonialism? Not really. But don't throw out the good consequences of a bad thing. I will point out the CCP's Belt and Road Initiative is specifically designed to emphasize the bad elements of colonialism while removing the good elements of colonialism. They are using migrant Han Chinese workers rather than creating local jobs and the local Chinese owned businesses in African and Southeast Asia are not paying local taxes, and the infrastructure is mostly used to strip natural resources and ship it to China. The only non-Chinese people that benefit from this are the corrupt politicians taking bribes. I will point out that a Eurocentric view of world history is insulting to Africans and Asians even if the history paints the Europeans as the bad guys. The Africans were minding their own business when evil Europeans sailed in to enslave them. The Native Americans were minding their own business when evil Spaniards and Anglos sailed in to genocide them. The Chinese were minding their own business when the British forced them all to become Opium addicts. Etc. A slight exaggeration, but I read by an American English teacher in Japan that the way Japanese teach WWII in schools "Japan was having some territorial disputes with other Pacific nations and then the Americans dropped two atomic bombs on us." Taking a victim mentality never helps because it requires a person or group to abandon their agency. If you have no agency, you are helpless to solve your own problems, so you need a big strong government to save you! This can plant the seed for a communist or authoritarian state. Yeah. It was bad but it was the actions of one man, not a vast institution. And they destroyed a statue of Ulysses S. Grant! He was the most important leader in the Union fighting the Confederacy and he spent most of his presidency opposing the Klan. Was he perfect? No. But if Ulysses S. Grant is not an ally to black people than it is literally impossible for a white person to be an ally to black people. I know so little about EU politics, that if a make a comment about the EU, I'm probably going to look dumb, so I will step out of that one. Other than the EU needs to get much tougher against the CCP. It's not just the Left wing that is complicit, there is a segment of the Right backing them up. In the West there are two groups playing defense for the CCP in the media. Socialists and neo-Marxists who want to paper over the evil inherit in their ideology and very callous Wall Street types who want to sell their souls in order to get a piece of the Chinese market (which requires kissing the CCP's ring). I watched a long podcast from China Unscripted. I'm not going to post the whole video, but I will summarize interesting thing in that the CCP is slowly losing Wall Street. Not for any moral reasons but for economic reasons. The CCP officials in charge of brokering deals with foreign businesses are accustomed to dealing with Chinese businesses. In other words, they are so used to being able to dictate the terms unchallenged that they forgot how to negotiate. CCP Negotiator: "So you are going to run interference for us in the Western media, you are going to give us a bunch of investment money, build your stuff with Chinese contractors, and we are going to keep 80% of the profits" Disney Generic Corporate Representative: So I am willing to compromise my morals, but I am not going to do it for free. You got to give me more money for this. This reminds me of something Jordan Peterson said. Paraphrasing here: The 20th century taught us that both the Right and the Left can go too far and do horrible things. The question is, how far is "too far." By now we learned, that once the Right starts preaching about racial superiority, that is the canary in the coal mine. Once a Right winger says something about overt racial superiority, the appropriate thing to do is stop dealing with that person. It's cut and dry. Sure you can argue about "dog whistles," but for the most part, at least the US, if a Right Winger spouts overt racism most Republicans will shun them. There is no cut and dry point for when a Far Left person goes "too far." There is no clear thing they can say or do that will cause 99% of society to close them off. They are allowed to joke about throwing people in gulags, sterilizing most men, stealing the children away from parents who are straying from the party line, and a variety of other horrific things I would say that when patriotism goes "too far" is when you talk about destroying the inferior group. I agree, lets stop talking about BLM on this thread. I'm not opposed to talking about the subject. I just don't want to talk about it here as tempting as it is to bring up this meme.
So much bad stuff here I don't know what to focus on... I definitely need to be very careful the next time I buy a pair of shoes.
IDK... i cannot see him as a true supporter of CCP. i think he made this decision to prosper in China and to avoid being banned from one (if on the) greatest market for movies. This without taking into account family ties and family members living in china. Still a decision that he could very well regret. And selling your souls is never a good bargain.
This is not an acceptable reason in my opinion. Also, the CCP keeps screwing over foreign business partners and taking most of the profits so even if China is the "biggest untapped market" there isn't much money to be made there. I believe he bought his parents a nice home in Australia. I don't know about his son and daughter. I doubt he has much other family, he is a product of the one child policy after all. It doesn't matter, I'm not paying a cent to watch anything he is in from now on. If I can help it, I'm not paying a cent for anything made in China or anything made by a Western company that kisses the CCP's ring. I've been trying to replacement lightbulb. It is very hard to find a lightbulb not made in China.
By the way, many products labeled "made in China" are actually from Taiwan (Republic of China), no CCP there.
Are you sure? I've seen a lot of stuff that says "Made in Taiwan" on it. I'm not saying it never happened, in the mid twenty century both Taiwan and the PRC claimed to the "real" China, but I don't think it's that common any more in the 21st century. Taiwanese are more likely to identify as Taiwanese than as Chinese, at least to my understanding and in their international communications.