8th Ed. Who are the very best named Special Characters in the entire game?

[NIGHTBRINGER]

A new thread topic for us to sink our teeth into . My hope is that as a community we can come up with a list of the very best special characters (so named characters from the army books, and not custom built generic characters) in the entire game.

The plan is threefold:

1. Come up with a list of worthy candidates (suggest a special character and provide a rationale as to why they are so powerful)
2. Analyze each other's candidates and debate (strengths and weaknesses, value for their points cost, what they bring to the battlefield and/or how they change the game/army)
3. Rank the Special Characters from best to worst (and then I'll compile everyone's rankings into one master list)

What do I mean by best?... Simply performance on the battlefield. All we care about is how competitive they are rules-wise. Fluff is irrelevant. Model quality is irrelevant. Not every army needs to be represented, only the ones that have the truly most powerful special characters.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (where a 1 is the worst special character and a 10 is the best), we're looking for 8's, 9's or 10's. The point is not to list well-balanced special characters or ones that are merely worth their points cost, but ones that are overpowered, undercosted or cheesy.

Consider each Special Character REALTIVE to their points cost!! For instance, Mazdamundi is more powerful than Tetto'eko, but Mazamundi is overcosted and is a detriment to the creation of a powerful army list, and therefore not a worthy candidate (imo). Conversely, Tetto'eko is undercosted; his inclusion makes for a stronger army build and thus he is a worthy candidate.


Don't feel bad if you disagree with someone's selection or if someone disagrees with yours. Friendly debate is good! The point is to create a discussion and for us to mutually gain a better understanding of the game. Make your best points for and against each character, and then we all have an equal vote in the end.

It's go time!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

To start off the thread, I'll suggest what I think might be one of the absolute very best special characters in the entire game. None other than...

Throgg, the King of Trolls!

My reasons for presenting Throgg as a candidate for consideration can be summarized as follows:

• he is an extremely potent combatant (lord-level profile, regeneration, a very dangerous special rule)
• fundamentally changes the way the WoC army can be played (makes Chaos Trolls core)
• provides a second leadership bubble
• extremely undercosted at the low, low price of only 195 points!!!

So what does 195 points net you? A great profile, two amazing special rules (plus one mediocre one) and a stellar magic item.


For 195 points you're getting movement 6, weapon skill 5, strength 6 (8 with his great weapon), toughness 5, 4 wounds, 5 attacks (+ a stomp) and leadership 8. On top of that, as a Troll, he has a 4+ regeneration save. That state line will make a Chaos Lord envious. Even without his special rules and magic item, his value is already nearing his meager points cost.

Special rules

Mutant Regeneration - a 4+ regeneration with a small additional bonus. If Throgg passes two or more regeneration saves in a single phase he rolls on the Eye of the Gods table. The regeneration save is integral for any troll; we all know its value. On the other hand, the roll on the Eye of the Gods table is pretty mediocre. The reason for this is because while some of the blessings are very good (extra toughness, extra attack, etc.) there always exists the possibility of being turned into a spawn. In most cases, the Eye of the Gods roll will be pretty inconsequential... while sometimes it will be amazing and on rare occasions it will be terrible.

Copious Vomit - not to be confused with the standard "Troll Vomit". Copious Vomit is a strength 5 breath weapon that allows no armour saves!! This makes it one of the best breath weapons in the entire game. A strength 5 breath weapon is already upper tier, but having it ignore armour saves makes it extremely dangerous. Most breath weapons that ignore armor are balanced by their relatively low strength (so it is harder to wound). With Copious Vomit, Throgg will wound most things on either 2's or 3's and then allow no armour save. It can single handedly decimate a unit of Knights or pose a huge problem for a character locked in a challenge with Throgg. At this point I'd argue that Throgg is already worth his points, but there's more!...

Lord of the Monstrous Horde - An army with Throgg can select Chaos Trolls as core choices (instead of special). This gives you the option to fundamentally change the way your army functions. Trolls are very dangerous units (and more so with Throgg's magic item to be discussed next), but having them as core choices is awesome. When properly supported by leadership (see below) they stack up nicely against the vast majority of units in the game. Point for point they WILL outfight most opponents. Also, Trolls are much faster than Marauders or Chaos Warriors, so Throgg gives you the chance to build a very speedy list if you desire to, as you're no longer limited to M4 or a chariot's inability to march. Defensively, Trolls with their low points-per-wound cost and their regeneration save are extremely resilient. Finally their ability to completely nuke enemy armour makes them a huge threat to some of the very best units in the game (Skullcrushers, Demigryph Knights, etc.). Simply keep them in a leadership bubble and away from Flaming Attacks and they will win you games. And now they are core! Hail the Troll King!

Magic Item

The Wintertooth Crown - The icing on the cake. Allows Throgg to share his leadership 8 with all friendly war beasts, monstrous beasts, monstrous infantry and monsters within a huge 18" bubble. This gives your army a second leadership bubble, and more importantly ensures that your general no longer has to babysit your Trolls. As such, this alleviates one of the biggest drawbacks of fielding units of Trolls. Now your flying Daemon Prince or Chaos Lord are free to roam the battlefield and spread destruction. Additionally, if the two leadership bubbles are separated and well positioned, you have coverage over most of the battlefield. This works extremely synergistically with his ability to field core Chaos Trolls. Also very helpful for your very dangerous, but low leadership Chimeras!


As a quick side note, if your Throgg should ever find himself outside of a unit of Trolls, remember that he himself does not have the Stupidity special rule.


With all this I feel he is an absolute steal for his 195 point cost. In my opinion, he is the best special character (for his points cost) on the Warriors of Chaos roster and perhaps in the game as a whole. Even if you remove a couple of his special rules, he'd still be worth it. However with all of them being considered, he is an absolute top tier special character and brings something to the battlefield that you can't replicate with a generic hero (or even lord) build.


Thoughts and discussion?

What are some other top tier special characters?

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Throgg is absolutely in the 8-10 range. No question. For me he qualifies JUST for making Trolls Core. Trolls are a solid, solid, SOLID troop choice when you can keep them near your Lord.

Has anyone considered a Troll-Star with Throgg? This would be pretty awesome.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

I'm looking over my characters but you've already stolen my Tetto idea. IMHO he is one of the best choices, points for points, in the game. Especially in lower level point battles.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Throgg is absolutely in the 8-10 range. No question.

For me, Throgg is a solid 10 for his points cost. He contributes massively to an army he is in and for relatively few points. I'd probably give Tetto an 8 or 8.5.

Trolls are a solid, solid, SOLID troop choice when you can keep them near your Lord.

Which you don't even have to do if you have Throgg around!!!

Has anyone considered a Troll-Star with Throgg? This would be pretty awesome.

I've tinkered with the idea.

Eventually though, I split the unit into two units of nine Trolls... alongside a JuggerStar unit of 8 + BSB. I did start on a variant list where I instead kept the 18 trolls together and split the JuggerStar unit into two separate units, but I never finished it.

I'm looking over my characters but you've already stolen my Tetto idea.

I was going to do a write-up for him, unless you would like to do it instead. That said, you might be able to do one for one of the other armies you play, since I'm not that familiar with them (assuming of course that you believe that they have a deserving candidate). Do the DoC or Ogres have any really amazing characters?

In terms of my armies, my options are limited:

• Warriors of Chaos - Throgg
• Lizardmen - Tetto'eko
• Chaos Dwarfs - none (only one SC who is mediocre at best)
• Tomb Kings - none (lots of good characters, that I'd rate in the 6-7 range, but nothing game breaking imho)

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Go ahead with Tetto as you've already called that one

I'll take a look through my other armies for SC that are worthy of consideration for the Heavyweight title

 

[Killer Angel]

As long as i saw the title, i was read to jump in with Tetto... but it was too late.

Now i must think, instead of relying on solid past knowledge.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Now i must think, instead of relying on solid past knowledge.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. This thread needs some input!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Next up we've got...

Tetto'eko, Astromancer of the Constellations

Tetto is easily the best Lizardmen special character for his points. How much of a good deal is he? Let's compare him to a Skink Priest in order to determine his cost effectiveness.

Skink Priest + Level 2 upgrade + Talisman of Endurance (5+ ward save) = 130 points.

That means that Tetto is 55 points more expensive. Let's see what we're getting for a mere 55 points:

Loremaster (Lore of Heavens) - this is an absolutely massive bonus. Having Loremaster on a level 4 wizard nets you an additional 3 spells, but on a level 2 wizard you are gaining a whooping 5 extra spells. Ask yourself how many points is the addition of 5 spells worth? With loremaster you've got a great number of spells at your disposal, but more importantly you're guaranteed to get the spells you really want. It also allows you to double up on spells should that fit your fancy.

The Palanquin of Constellations - Tetto can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests, but is not considered to be a 'model on foot' (though he still is classed as infantry). Also his placement in a unit works the same way as a Slann, but instead of Temple Guard it works with Skink Cohorts. To be honest, this is a pretty small bonus. If you get your Skink Cohorts involved in CC against an even mildly credible enemy unit, your skink unit won't last too long. So while it does offer him a bit more protection, it isn't that much of a significant difference. It is a far cry from a Slann bunkered in a Temple Guard unit.

Herald of Cosmic Events - At the start of each magic phase roll a D6. On a roll of 1, all friendly wizards re-roll power dice rolls of '6'. On a roll of 2+, all friendly wizards re-roll power dice rolls of '1'. So 83% of the time you get to reroll those crippling casting rolls of one. This will make your magic phase significantly more reliable. Alternatively, 17% of the time you must re-roll casting rolls of six. Even this result is not totally without merit. While it does mean that you will have to expend a dice or two extra when casting, it will also greatly reduce your chances of rolling a miscast. Not ideal, but its something, and it is only a problem 1 in 6 times.

The Eye of the Old Ones - you get to choose D3 of your units to Vanguard; allowing you to move significant threats up the field quickly. Maybe it's a Carno threating enemy lines or better yet your Kroak Temple Guard deathstar! It can be used in a wide array of ways. Imagine the flexibility quickly shifting flankers up the side of the battlefield. Maybe a Salamander moving down the flank to threaten the opposition right from the start, etc., etc. Either way, it affords you a superior deployment phase that is more difficult for your opponent to predict and more forgiving of any deployment mistakes you may have made. Remember, you're making this roll and choosing your units to vanguard after you and your opponent have finished deploying!

The Stellar Staff - When Tetto successfully casts the Comet of Casandora, you may re-roll the dice at the start of each magic phase to see if it arrives. You can use this to increase the odds of the comet coming down faster, before your opponent has a chance to move his units to safety, or you can use it to try to delay the comet and have it increase in power. Simply put, no other wizard in the game has this level of control when it comes to the Comet of Casandora. It removes a good bit of the unpredictability that can otherwise hamper the spell.


All these bonus rules for a mere 55 points extra!!! This is the reason why many people (rightfully) feel that Tetto is significantly undercosted. He offers way more than what you'd expect at his price point. He is an extremely reliable wizard (get the spells you want, improved comet), can get your units up the field and can help all friendly wizards in their casting. Sounds like a great deal to me.

While a great character, he does have some minor weaknesses:

• like most wizards, he must be protected. That 5+ ward save can only do so much to protect your T2 two wound wizard. He may be very well priced, but it is still a significant number of victory points that you'd rather keep out of your opponent's hands.
• as a backup wizard, he can't carry a dispel scroll for you
• not as useful of an Arcane Vassal as a Skink Priest because he is not as expendable (and has a larger footprint too)
• there is a certain point range where he isn't that viable... specifically at medium point ranges where you can just afford a Slann, but can't quite justify spending any more points on magic
• between him and a Slann (especially a Wandering Deliberations or Focus of Mystery Slann), you'll never have enough power dice. And the Slann is adding 4 to each cast, while Tetto only adds 2. Still, having a rich selection of spells isn't a bad thing!

I believe that Tetto can really dominate in lower points games. He can also have a significant impact in high point games. A great character who is an absolute steal at his points cost. I wouldn't rate him as highly as Throgg, but he is definitely a top tier named special character. Do you agree or disagree? Who is better Throgg or Tetto?

 

[Killer Angel]

I believe that Tetto can really dominate in lower points games. He can also have a significant impact in high point games. A great character who is an absolute steal at his points cost. I wouldn't rate him as highly as Throgg, but he is definitely a top tier named special character. Do you agree or disagree? Who is better Throgg or Tetto?

Overall Throgg is better, but in low points games Tetto is a game changer. He was almost always present in my lizardmen lists.

 

[PlasmaDavid]

I was wondering what approach this thread was taking: lore, un-costed game model, costed game model... I always think the middle of the three is the most fun, not taking value into consideration just lets em SMASH HEADS. But hey, I don't have nearly enough WFB gameplay experience to have any meaningful input here so I'm just along for the ride

Am I weird in not liking special characters? I know SCs were always a big part of WFB, especially older editions... but IDK, unless you're making a "historical" fluffy list, including an SC always felt like it took away from "my guys".

At least WFB has a great system for making your own SC (magic items granting abilities etc) unlike 40k for comparison.

 

[Killer Angel]

Am I weird in not liking special characters? I know SCs were always a big part of WFB, especially older editions... but IDK, unless you're making a "historical" fluffy list, including an SC always felt like it took away from "my guys".

Curiously, i have never been a fan of named great heroes. They are so mythical i like to employ them in big battles, not when i field a small army (and 2000 pts imo is a small army to justify the presence of, let's say, lord kroak).
I don’t mind other people using them, it's just a personal taste.

On the other side, named heroes in my book are perfectly fine in standard battles.

 

[PlasmaDavid]

I've always just assumed a scale of numbers something along the lines of 20mm = 20 troops, 25mm = 10 etc etc to make the "small" number of models make any kind of sense translated to a "real fictional" setting...

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I was wondering what approach this thread was taking: lore, un-costed game model, costed game model...

The focus of this thread is the special character's battlefield power/efficiency relative to their point cost. In particular, we're looking at the very top end of that scale.

Am I weird in not liking special characters? I know SCs were always a big part of WFB, especially older editions... but IDK, unless you're making a "historical" fluffy list, including an SC always felt like it took away from "my guys".

I don't think that is an unusual stance. There are large numbers of people on both sides of issue. Some people like special characters and others don't. Nothing wrong with either.

I personally really like special characters. Many of the Tomb Kings special characters add a lot of fun and variation to the gameplay of the army. Choosing one over the other fundamentally changes how you build a list and implement the army on the battlefield. On the other side, many of the Lizardmen special characters (Tiktaq'to, Chakax, Oxyotl, etc.) have such rubbish rules that they are essentially a waste of space in the army book.

All in all, I think special characters have their place. Especially under 8th edition where unique magic items have been severely limited and thereby inhibiting the variation we see between custom characters. Special characters help differentiate one army from another.

(and 2000 pts imo is a small army to justify the presence of, let's say, lord kroak).

What is your ideal army size for lord level SCs? 3000pts? 4000pts?

 

[Killer Angel]

What is your ideal army size for lord level SCs? 3000pts? 4000pts?

3000 would be fine, yep.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

3000 would be fine, yep.

That's the exact point total where 95% of my games are set! (the only exception is if we are running weird army team ups).

 

[Killer Angel]

That's the exact point total where 95% of my games are set! (the only exception is if we are running weird army team ups).

Different approaches, same result!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

So does anybody else have a named special character in mind that they feel is ultra competitive (as per the original post of the thread)?

@The Great White Lizard @Knoffles @ASSASSIN_NR_1 @Explodingzeb @BrotherSutek @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl @Neersh @Lord-Marcus @Blastoize @Warden @Erta Wanderer @Padre @pendrake @Imrahil @Scalenex @Karnus @WildColonial Boy @Neersh @Charlemagne @Phaeron

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I can't think of many characters in the armies that I play who could be considered uber-competitive, and those I can think of have dubious claims:

• For Beastmen the only character that comes close is Taurox, who is funnily enough a match for Throgg with his weapons having flaming attacks and his 1+ armour save being able to weather Throgg's vomit, but doesn't have the ability to field Minotaurs in Core (which would be fun), costs 335 points and has that thematic but annoying rule that if an enemy hits and wounds on a 6 and Taurox fails his save, he dies instantly, so he's pretty balanced and definitely isn't cheese.
• Dwarfs definitely don't have any cheese characters - Thorgrim's a highly expensive tank that, despite wielding one of the axes of Grimnir himself, doesn't get much out of it, Belegar can double his attacks once per game but is limited to his low Strength, Ungrim's the most competitive choice and is a bit of a beast in combat but costs more than Taurox at 350 and isn't an all-out powerhouse, Grimm's a handy shot with his rifle but can't do much in combat, Bugman is a jack-of-all-trades who can do a lot of things decently but nothing extremely well, and Thorek is no longer deemed competitive.
• High Elf characters are mostly priced reasonably, with Tyrion and Teclis both above 400, Eltharion even more than that if he takes Stormwing and the budget heroes are at budget hero cost and quality, though Alarielle could possibly be a contender, because she does have a lot of competent special rules. She gives the unit she is in 5+ ward vs. non-magic attacks, her unit is Immune to Fear and Terror and deals magical attacks, she can mix and match her spells from Life, Light and High Magic (though has to roll for them still), she unlocks a magical banner that gives spells cast from Lore of Light and Life an additional +4 to cast and an item that gives +1 to hit on all shooting and close combat for the remainder of the turn, can heal a friendly character by 1 wound in each of her movement phases and can once a game cast a spell she already cast that turn. On the downside, she costs the same as all the other characters I can think of on this list and she will die to any character (and probably some Unit Champions as well) halfway decent in combat, with only a 5+ Ward Save to keep her alive. Make of her what you will - some High Elf players consider her gold, while others consider her as being above average but not OP.
• Orcs and Goblins' closest contender is Grimgor, who's as much of a beast as Taurox but costs the same as Ungrim and Alarielle at 350, against Throgg specifically he's not as capable as Taurox, but doesn't have the possibility of instant death. Again his pretty high (compared to Throgg) points cost means I doubt he could be considered cheese.
• I can't think of any cheesy Skaven characters - none of them are super-powerful in combat (Queek is probably the best in this field but is only at his best against one race - Dwarfs), and though there are a couple of Level 4 magic users (Thanquol and Skrolk) they are reasonably priced for what they can do. Rats like cheese, but for the Skaven it definitely isn't found in their list of named characters.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

So does anybody else have a named special character in mind that they feel is ultra competitive (as per the original post of the thread)?

@The Great White Lizard @Knoffles @ASSASSIN_NR_1 @Explodingzeb @BrotherSutek @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl @Neersh @Lord-Marcus @Blastoize @Warden @Erta Wanderer @Padre @pendrake @Imrahil @Scalenex @Karnus @WildColonial Boy @Neersh @Charlemagne @Phaeron

I'll give it some more thought once I'm not so busy, but from the top pf my head, I'd also say Alarielle for High Elves. Maybe Gor-Rok could be a contender, not sure. Kholek does seem relatively good as well, at least in comparison to most other monster lords, so maybe, but cannons is a big problem there of course. Tullaris dreadbringer for the Dark Elves might be worth a look, given how cheap he is. Morathi could be strong, but might be too susceptible too missiles.