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What page does it say that? I have reread a lot of rules and cannot find anything disallowing it. On page 206, it does say that all Infantry and Cavalry models that have not joined a unit are Lone Characters, and that they can join units. Also nothing in the FAQ about this.

I can find an example of a picture in which a mounted character is shown joining an infantry unit though, page 207. If there is a rule disallowing it this totally tripped me up.

 

Yeah. Looks like you are right. Kinda a game changing thought for characters

Looks like the only rules affecting what units characters can join are Fly, and then on the troop types. Monsters and heavy chariots (note, not light ones) have thr lumbering rule and can't join units or be joined by a character (so not even if they are the same type). And monstrous infantry and cacalrt have the Clumsy rule, meaning only other monstrous infantry/cav can join them.

And yeah. Figure 207.1 really shows this can be done.

 

Only infantry and cav can join units right, as they are Lone Characters, following page 206, so i would say also Light Chariots cannot be joined by a Light Chariot character?

And i think so as well, have really scoured the rules and have found nothing disallowing it, and page 206 allows it so it goes if you ask me.

 

Well I guess I'm wrong.

Another question I have - apologies my rule book isn't with me - surely fear goes off the characters wounds and not the unit strength given its only the character with fear?

 

Spoke to a guy who has played 3 games with lizardmen. Said the stegadon performs extremely well and that T6 is something to behold. But that's nothing on the carnosaur who also barely gets hurt but just rips through infantry blocks.

Additionally, the temple guard are as good as we had hoped, they are rarely matched in even points combat.

Edit - although he says the carnosaur will struggle against a super chaos lord which he hasn't fought yet

 

The unit causes fear right. It stipulates that the unit does not get immunity to fear by the character joining it, but i would say it makes sense for you to count the entire unit strength right. Unclear as of now.

On the Carnosaur, untill Dragons etc are nerfed, you need the Dragon Slaying Sword i think. It is literally the only answer we have against the Chaosdragon and Star Dragon nukes.

 

During the course of a game.

I think a light chariot could at deployment though. And light chariot units could be joined by characters.

Specifically though, they have to have the churning wheels rule... which only light chariots have. Which I forgot to mention above.

 

Okay todays topic

Bastiladon

Who is running one? They are the least impressive (stat wise) of our four big dinosaurs however they are easily the cheapest.

They seem to compete with a stegadon so may just come down to how much points you have.

 

IMO you shouldn't leave home without one. +1 I is going to be a make or break often I believe.

And the Beam of Chotec is actually a really nice magic missile. Cast of 9 with PL2 mean you will get it off over half the time, so if nothing else you can force your opponent to use a dispel possibly.

The real nice thing is 3d3 hits. Not very swingy compared to 2d6. So it's a reliable average of 6 S5 AP-2 flaming hits.

Considering how prevalent Tomb Kings will be as a launch faction, definitely seems nice.

And the Bastiladon is great flank defence, since no one gets bonus combat resolution for hitting it's flank or rear.

 

Maybe it's just me, but in 8ed I found Bastiladon good on paper, but useless in a game. Beam usually was dispelled or did almost nothing, +1 Init is 100% useless (and even worse now, when even Temple Guards got the same Init as normal Sauruses ...and even zombies).

On the contrary, Arc of Sotek had some use - by making large boxes of Sauruses poison attacks (via jungle swarm spam and js rule), but now it was also nerfed.

 

To me it feels like it’s going to be specifically about whether the +1I helps you strike first after a charge or not.
I feel like thats the main strength of the piece.
Maybe just maybe it can help to cover your flanks, but as you want it in the middle to spread its buff, it’s gonna be a lot about positioning.
The question is whether it can stick with your blocks (or units which need the buff).
Sounds good for holding, but then again, when we get charged, +1I is pointless.

On the plus side, it’s not overly expensive (point wise) and looks kinda nice on the table.)

 

100%. The model is nice. But 160 points is not cheap at all - it's a fully equipped scarvet on a cold one or 10 temple guards.

 

Defensively I think it pairs well with Shieldwall. Give ground in a losing combat against strikes last units and then hit then back at I2 next turn.

+1 I isn't pointless if charged by anything with strikes last, so any great weapons units.

Offensively, frontal charges will never take us over I4 without it, so useful in any meta with alot of elves or chaos IMO

 

I really can't tell what is going to be better out of the bastiladon or stegadon. I think you can only take 1 (unless you're dropping the carnosaur) and I've heard the T6 of the steg is amazing as it's quite hard for units to wound on anything other than 6.

However the steg is quite a points jump, and tbh most of us will go ancient. The bastiladon will better ranged too.

The +1 init bonus, well it's hard to see it being that useful. TG at init 1 is rough.

Speaking of which I must be dull as I only just realised that halberds are two handed. And you can't attack in the back rank like with spears! So... Honestly hard to see us breaking it out over our hand weapons and shields. +1 st and AB(1) to lose the shield? I think you'd only do it if you were attacking first and hitting on 3's.

 

Why are you into drain magic? I hate how you there are effectively three times dice are rolled before you have any benefits, first you have to cast it, then they get to dispell it and then they get to try to dispell it again in their command phase before it has any effect. A lvl 4 especially is very likely to dispell it, in my book it is just a bad spell and one of the main reason I mainly want to use Elementalism.

I think Ethereal on your Slann is going to be necessary once people wizen up about the rules. Often TG will have -1 to hit due to screening Skinks and Skinks of course have that natively. A Slann however is a large target, so how I understand it people can shoot the Slann, do not get the -1 to hit they would get on all our other targets of you screen well because he is a large target and get to shoot TG without any disadvantage (ason 2+s the hits get transferred to them). Him being ethereal makes him very safe and makes it impossible to abuse that (I think it works like this, early days though)

 

There is no mention of specific rules for lone characters that are a Large Target, so they should enjoy regular character protection rules (which are very generous), plus TG Guardians rule (which also apply to things like bouncing cannonballs and templates).

So from a theorycrafting point of view I would rate Ethereal as very mid.

 

Ah ok nice, that makes sense, because he is monstrous Infantry right. He would not get cover as he is a large target, but still if you can't shoot him that doesn't matter, nice. Lowers the stocks on Ethereal indeed. Only thing a Slann needs to be afraid of is a striking cannonball right, and that never 1 shots so meh.

 

Just double checked, cannonball strike point is also a "hit". So in essence, during the shooting phase a Slann only might take damage if you roll 1 on the Guardians roll.

 

A few reasons why I like Drain magic
1- Outside of WE and HE, LM are the only ones with access to High Magic. Unless I am missing something. This means few armies have access to it.
2- Everything I've seen, people are planning on all bringing Level 4 mages. Sure a Level 4 can easily dispel a level 1 and 2. But since you have to better the result to dispel, a level 4 is parity with a level 3 to dispel, and will be less successful at dispelling other level 4 spells than they are at casting. So if I can just prevent them from casting to begin with, thats great.
3- Dispelling carries the risk of a miscast now. A double 1 isn't just a failure, but an outright miscast. So the less dispel attempts I make the better.
4- Its a remain in play spell. So if they don't dispel it initially, this means they risk a dispel miscast TWICE to get rid of it. Sure the second attempt it easier, but its still an opportunity to miscast.
5- Dispel scrolls are 20 points and not automatic.

SO, adding 2 to your opponent's requirements to cast essentially makes you feel like a Level 6 wizard dispelling their spells. But with no risk to miscast for you, just them. And it pretty much shuts down level 1 or 2 mages, and most bound spells, without you having to so much as lift a finger. Yes, there are multiple rolls before it really has an effect, but if it does take effect, its great. And if if doesn't, it still presented them with more opportunities to miscast than me.

I think Dwarves running heavy on the runic and TK will be particularly handled by it. Also if I can get my old blood on carno in to kill their level 4 (or 3) early to mid game, I can just cast this and ignore the level 1 and 2s late game.

As for the ethereal discussion, I know you already see the fact he is protected by LC, but I have had this conversation outside the forums a few times now, so just going to elaborate on it for everyone's education, because I think alot of people are mixing up what "troop type" is.

Lone Character (pg 206 BTB) offers more protection than ethereal and prevents this "Bypass" of shooting TG by targeting the Slann, since he can't be targeted anyways.

LC says same troop type i.e. "Infantry, cavalry". It does not specify Regular Infantry, Heavy Infantry etc. There are 5 troop types (p 188) and the flavours within each of those are "sub-categories". Additionally, Lone Character applies to "Infantry or Cavalry", not specifying the Sub-Category. the Slann and TG are the same Troop Type - Infantry. They are not the same Sub-Category. But that doesn't matter for Lone Character. This makes sense for the most part in the context of the other infantry types- IE a Heavy Infantry Lone Character within 3" of a Regular Infantry unit shouldn't be targetable. I get how logically this would be a stretch for say a swarm protecting a slann, but mechanically sometimes weird things happen. Also, the game is built around taking big points characters. Would be unfun if a 400 point Lord was killed by 80 points of archers every game.

Pg 188, BTB-

"There are five main categories of troop type, each of which is further divided into subcategories.
For example, particularly large infantry fall into the ‘monstrous infantry’
sub-category of infantry. In such cases, when the rules refer to ‘infantry’ models or
units, monstrous infantry must also follow those rules unless an exception is stated for
monstrous infantry."​

Pg 206, BTB

"Any character whose troop type is ‘infantry’ or ‘cavalry’ and that has not joined a unit is
considered to be a ‘Lone character’."​

Pg 206 BTB, Targeting Lone Characters

A Lone character cannot be targeted by enemy shooting or by enemy spells whilst it is​

within 3" of a friendly unit (that is not itself fleeing) that contains five or more models of
the same troop type as the character (i.e., ‘infantry’ or ‘cavalry’), unless the Lone character
is the closest target.

Monstrous Infantry does not have any stipulations on it other than what units they can join/be joined by. But that is moot as the Slann has fly.

So the Slann is Monstrous Infantry, but that's just infantry as far as Lone Character is concerned, meaning as long as he is within 3" of ANY INFANTRY that is 5 or more models, he can't be targeted by shooting either. Unless he is the closest target. Large Target does not bypass Lone Character. Just means they always have LoS and he can't get cover. But that doesn't matter if he can't be targeted. FAQ also extends this to cannons unless he falls DIRECTLY under the hole.

So IMO, Ethereal is really only useful if your Infantry Blocks are just obliterated, or you plan to zoom your slann around the board with his fly ability, or you are super paranoid about super accurate cannons. But if you are keeping him 'bunkered' up in your battleline, he is safe. And with Fly, even if he his closest shielding unit is reduced to less than 5, you should easily be able march him away in your next turn. And as far as the magical attack protection, if I was an opponent and know the slann was ethereal, I'd just make sure to charge it with something with magical attacks. Easy to plan to counter it.