After playing 15 games i feel comfortable giving a rundown on what i think about all of our units. I am pretty happy to say that my early results have been very good, i have won literally every game i played. I do not think that says that much though, i have played 8th edition during the 9 year hiatus and a lot of my opponents have not or have not even ever played 8th which i feel has given me a big leg up. I do feel like i know what i am talking about though, as there are quite a few similarities between the tactics that worked in 8th edition and TOW. I have written this tierlist from a competitive tournament all comers perspective, so this is advice for a 2K list for a VP based tournament that has at least 3 rounds and some kind of rule of 3 comp to avoid things like Gyrocopterspam. Lizardmen feel like a pretty middle of the pack army to me. Orcs and Goblins, Bretonnia and Tomb Kings feel like front runners to me, all bringing very efficient units (Fanatics, Mangler Squigs, Pegasus Knights and Bone Dragon with Armor of the Ages) along with a strong overal gameplan. We definitely have tools to fight everyone though. I feel like our shooting game is very strong and we have the best skirmishers in the game in core, which is fantastic. We are also quite tough with a lot of T6 monsters we can spam. The only real thing we miss is heavy cavalry and our heavy infantry loses out to other good heavy infantry due to I1. I do also think we lack a good answer vs enemy mounted behemoths of around 600 points (the so-called Terror Dragons), as our heaviest behemoth generally isn't as strong as the enemy Terror Dragon. Our most contested slot is the character slot. I often fill it up completely. You do not need more than 500 points in core as more than 60 skinks is not neccesary and 60 skinks plus the mandatory 10 Saurus Warriors (as i call them the Worthy 140) already gets you to 500. You will also notice that i talk a lot about the Talisman of Protection, i think you are making a mistake if you are not running it in your 2K army as it is the best item in the game, especially for our characters on behemoths. I have used most units i have listed, if i have not used a unit yet the description i give is an educated guess. I have tiered the units in effectiveness also within each tier, so the highest S tier unit i think is better than the second best S tier unit and so on. I hope you find the tierlist informative. S tier Skink Skirmishers. Hands down our best unit, best skirmishing unit in the game and an absolute steal for 5 points per model. When comparing the unit to 8th edition they simply got even better with Skirmish formation being completely free as opposed to still having to rank up in 8th edition along with a points reduction from 7 points to 5 points. It is just incredible. I think 10 man units with Javelins and Shield are best due to the fact they can march and shoot, always stand and shoot and they have a decent 5+ save, but i think other setups also work. Blowpipes makes them more expensive and decreases their save but give them a deadly stand and shoot (multiple shots+stand and shoot make it so you get poisons, note that you do not get long range penalty with standing and shooting), but you lose marching and shooting which is a big deal. I also think both their upgrades are quite strong. Scouts make it so they are better war machine hunters. Vanguard makes it so Skink Skirmishers also get to shoot turn 1 in most scenario’s (if you are 24 inches away you can never shoot turn 1 if your opponent has a functional brain and puts nothing on the line), so vanguard makes it so you at least have shots and is quite cheap with a 5 point upgrade. Use them to redirect, use them to shoot monsters, war machines. A common mistake i see is that people charge them in once everyone is engaged in close combat. Do not do this, they really only want to fight war machine crews in close combat and nothing else, you will bleed CR and VP and it will be bad. It is also really hard to get full points vs Skinks as you can probably hide the last 2-3 of them, giving your opponent a paltry 12 victory points for trying to kill your unit. They are also great at delaying decisions when deploying. 5 units of them plus your 10 mandatory Sauri are 6 drops that say very little over where your actual hard hitters will go, which make it so you can respond to enemy deployment. Them being core is the absolute kicker and makes it so our core tax is very cheap. Every 2K army should run around 50-60 of them, anything less in 2K is a mistake, they are the absolute backbone of our army. Skink Chief on Stegadon. A new guy on the block, a Skink Chief on Stegadon is a great upgrade over a regular Stegadon. Making the Steg WS4 instead of WS2 because of the Howdah rule fixes the main issue of you always being hit on 3s. Pushing the wounds to 7 makes the Stegadon really tough, and this is i think the best place to put your Talisman of Protection as it does the most for this WS4 T6 W7 monster. A Skink Chief is practically a 45 point upgrade that gives 2 extra wounds, poisoned attacks to the whole model, 4 attacks with additional hand weapon on S4, BS5 shooting and WS4 defence along with the option to take magical gear. If you phrase it like that i think it is quite clear how much of a steal this upgrade is. I also like putting the Glyph Necklace on him if the Talisman is already taken as the Magic Resistance is also quite good on him. Along with the monster there is just a massive ammount of attacks coming out of this model every single turn with potential impact hits, the crew hitting, him hitting, the stegadon himself hitting and the d3+2 stomp attacks making it so you just do a lot of wounds every turn he is in combat. Especially the Stomps are just a very reliable source of damage that really pushes all our Stegadons. D6 might sound better than D3+2, but i actually prefer D3+2 as a minimum of 3 makes it so they are consistently doing damage and getting that CR. Another good upgrade on him is a BSB as this gives you at least 1 and potentially 2 CR points (one for another banner and one for him being the BSB) every turn he is fighting. He is also good at taking a charge with Stubborn, reliably never panicking due to Immune to Psychology. I personally like the Giant Bow on him as it is a pretty good anti warmachine hunting weapon especially if you get a poison hit. He isn’t perfect, S5 is worse than the S6 the Ancient brings and the impact hits weirdly have no AP, but it is still a lot of attacks on a very tough beastie. Just a very strong unit for the points and a great pushing unit that often scores a lot of VP without giving up any VP. Small caveat, rules as written i believe the Chief gives his poisoned attacks to the Stegadon and crew and he is allowed to shoot the Giant Bow as he is part of the crew. This is however up for debate, and a good thing to discuss with your opponent before any game you play. Even if he loses both i still think he is great, which says a lot about the power of this unit. A tier Bastiladon with Solar Engine Bastiladon have had a major glow up with their shooting attack being very strong now. Most magic missiles only have a 15-18 inch range, but our friends the Basties get a very good 24 inch range. 3D3 S5 hits with ap-2 with flaming attacks are very strong especially vs heavy cavalry. There is no unit in the game that likes getting hit by this. A 3+ save with T5 makes them tough against return fire, especially bows just don’t harm them. Large Target makes it so enemy units cannot hide behind their own units if you want to shoot them and in close combat they are still quite decent with their impact hits and stomp attacks even though S4 makes them primarily a shooting unit. Their main counter is a Great Cannon, only 4 wounds makes it so they can get one shot by them, so hiding from enemy Great Cannons should be a priority. I used to be down on them as i thought their casting was quite unreliable but this is easily dealt with by just taking multiples. You do have to run them on flanks to keep them out of Lvl 4 dispel range, if you split them on both your flanks you generally have 1-2 of them shooting without dispels which should be good. If your choice is between shooting a suboptimal target outside of dispel range or shooting an optimal unit inside dispel range you should generally shoot the suboptimal unit. The +1 I is also pretty nice for all our slow monsters and Sauri, but the main draw is the shooting attack. The +1 I buff is also pretty close-ranged, which is hard to use as you want him outside of the frontlines as the frontline will likely be inside lvl 4 dispel range. Scar Veteran on Carnosaur. Our fast monster with our most fighty character, i think especially Swifstride and a good M value of 7 makes the Carnosaur a great option. He is a good answer to enemy behemoths and one of the few things we have that actually challenge enemy Terror Dragons. Our heavy cavalry is also very lacking, the Carnosaur is one of the few units that has speed and that is able to respond quickly to enemy movement. I personally think the Scarvet is actually the more efficient unit when compared to the Oldblood. You can think of an Oldblood as a 50 point upgrade that gives you an extra Wound, Attack and WS. I think the difference between WS 5 and 6 is quite small, and i do not think a magical item that costs 50 points that gives you 1 attack and 1 wound would ever be taken. I think the biggest upside they bring is the 100 point Magic Item allowance they offer which makes it so you can take the strong Blade of Revered Tzunki or the Armor of Destiny, but this does make them very expensive. A lot of Scarvet Carno builds are viable, my personal favorite is Talisman of Protection, Armor of Meteoric Iron with a Great Weapon for an effective double 5+ ward and a slew of S7 attacks. Going Dragonslayer Sword on him to really go hard anti behemoth along with the d3 wounds the Carnosaur has vs behemoths is also viable, but if you do i like to go Oldblood to at least give him some protection. If the I really matters, you could always use your Hand Weapon and retain Obsidian Blades if you go GW, so it is nice and flexible. Along with the Steg Chief this is another strong hammer we can run to really get the VP and not give up any. Especially how Meteoric Iron and the Talisman fit together along with a Great Weapon makes it so i give the small edge towards the Scarvet over the Oldblood. Skink Priest on Ancient Stegadon. Yes, i really think the lowly Skink Priest has knocked the Slann of its pedestal as our best wizard! I think Slann are merely ok right now because of reasons i will go into in its entry, but suffice to say that i think that it is still good to have a source of dispels in your army. Every wizard can make infinite dispels in its turn, so with his lvl 2 he at least has a shot of dispeling the enemy spells every turn. Battle Magic is also a lore that has great synergy with the Skink Priest on Stegadon as the Signature Spell is a nice assailment and all the other spells are ok to have, with Oaken Shield as a standout. Oaken Shield is also why you generally want Talisman of Protection on another monster, the Priest has another way to get his ward. All the things that count for the Skink Chief Steg count for him as well, T6 and 7 wounds is great and his dispels are pretty nice. The main thing i use him for is dispelling enemy Remains in Play spells, as you use him to push you can generally get him in range of enemy wizards to dispel them and with his 2+ vs casting values he is pretty ok in dispelling them. I think Engine of the Gods is one of our 2 go to builds, so going a Skink Priest along with a Slann Mage priest and another normal Ancient with an Engine is a very solid foundation of a list. The lvl 2 is generally already kinda expensive, i like to keep him cheap regarding magic items. Not as good as the Skink Chief Steg as he does not offer good attacks himself, no poisoned attacks for the whole model and he does not push up the WS at all but still the most efficient source of dispels in our army. 360 degrees of shooting on your wizard is also kinda nice. Oldblood on Carnosaur. Really comparable to the Scarvet on Carnosaur. Main builds are as i said Armor of Destiny with Great Weapon and Revered Tzunki with a Shield and a Talisman of Protection. Deciding what you want to go really depends on how you want to fill the 1000 points of character allotment you have it definitely is a viable upgrade but i have found that you can generally do better with the 50 points. I think Revered Tzunki is a better anti Terror Dragon measure than Dragonslayer Sword as it is better into other targets, but you could defintely go Dragonslayer along with something like Meteoric Iron and Talisman of Protection if you are really afraid of a lot of strong behemoths in your meta. B tier Ancient Stegadon If your character slot is full i think Ancient Stegadons are a good way to get more monsters. They are tough, have a good mix of attack and special rules with Stubborn and the d3+2 stomps being key. They are simply the most efficient monster we have with S6 and T6 being breaking points. I think the Ancient Stegadon is just a bit better than the normal Stegadon because S6 stomps and impact hits, where the most damage will come from, are better than S5 stomps and impact hits. Him being able to take Engine of the Gods is also a nice option if you do decide to go with a Slann as the 5+ to cast is pretty nice and it also takes a Skink Priest on a Steg up to +3 casting which can compete with lvl 4 dispels. Stegadon As the Ancient Steg, our best monster chassis but for the small price i would almost always go to an Ancient for the small upgrade price. Yes you do lose an attack, but S6 is important. Still a totally fine option but outshone by the Ancient. Saurus Warriors A weird one to rate as it is a required unit. I think there are 2 ways to run them, the minimal sized Worthy 140 or a battleline sized 12-16 man with shieldwall, a banner and a champion. They are relatively tough with T4 and a 4+ save and hit back pretty well with S4 and 2 attacks base. Their main issue is of course their lackluster movement of 4 and dreadful I 1. Actually good close combat units like Swordmasters, Demigryphs or Wild Riders of Khurnos will consistently slap down their front rank which will make it that your decent output along with Obisidian Blades simply does not matter that much. Charging only gets them to I4 in the front, so some Elf units still hit before you which makes I1 even worse than I2 or I3 than you might think. Having a Bastiladon with the Solar Engine nearby helps, but they generally do not want to be near the front lines because they want to be outside dispel range which makes this not as good as it might sound. I am pretty ambivalent on the Spear upgrade as i do not think it makes that big of a difference and makes them quite expensive. Same for Shieldwall, i think it is fine but it does not constitute to a 100% fall back in good order situation like the Temple Guard do which is kinda suspect to me. I have seen quite a lot of people been pretty positive on Sauri. I honestly think that this unit will get progressively worse the better your opponent is. If your opponent is running mediocre units of Empire Swordsmen or things like Ungors with hws, Sauri will tear through them with their superior output and the low I will not matter as your opponent will not kill your front rank. I kinda like the small unit as a way to perhaps kill enemy chaff/skeletons/general S3/T3 infantry, and they are even better at that job with a few more ranks and the banner and champion, but they will just be useless against the best the opponent can bring which makes them a bit lackluster to me. Temple Guard TG have similar issues as Sauri with I1 being the main detriment. WS4 and the options to use Halberds is pretty nice. They however have the same issue that they just lose to truly good close combat units with their I1 and they are even more expensive than normal Sauri which is a feels bad. Their main use lies in the combination of Shieldwall and Stubborn. Once per game you have a 100% certainty they will give ground vs an enemy charge, which makes them reliable in holding off something like a Bretonnian Knight Charge, they lose their First Charge and in the second round of combat they will have no charge bonusses so no lances or any shenenigans from them. They are also a pretty reasonable way to hold back an enemy Terror Dragon with a Slann. Every single one of them can issue challenges if a Slann is close, so as long they do not fail their rerollable LD9 break test as long as there are like 5 of them left, their 600 point Terror Dragon only kills 1 TG every turn which is a great deal for you. So they are fine against lighter infantry, but I1 is a huge detriment. Slann Mage Priest Probably my most controversial placement, but i think the Slann is a lot worse than in previous editions. He is roughly a 100 points more expensive than a normal lvl 4 and in return you get 2 extra wounds, a 5++, large target and a fly move. I frankly think that this is a bad deal, and i would much rather have a normal lvl 4. In a perfect world he never gets hit, so most of his rules are frankly wasted on him. The Disciplines are all quite bad, with only Becalming Cogitation really being viable if you ask me but expensive at 50 points. Compare any of our disciplines to the free casting reroll High Elf wizards get every single turn and you can see how a 200 point High Elf wizard is outmagicking our 300 point Slann. The main draw of the Slann is the fact that they are our only source of LD9 and having your general and BSB on a large target is kinda nice, but it is simply not worth the pricetag if you ask me in our heavily contested character slot. If you run one, you probably want Lore Familar to get the Illusion anti Terror Dragon spells you want or Plague of Rust from Elementalism to make our Javelins more effective, but this feels to me you are investing in something that is frankly too expensive to begin with. If you run one, it is probably in a Double Engine list to get those 5+’s to cast to actually outmagick the opposition, which is an ok way to go, but i think going hard into monsters is more viable. Chameleon Skinks They are a lot more expensive than normal skinks while losing the 5+ save. Evasive seems to have to be the draw here, but i do not see its use on a unit that is as short ranged as them. They could be relevant in a world with a hard rule of 3 comp where you can really only play 3 units of skinks. If that is not the case they are worse than normal skinks again, i’d rather pay my core tax with a better unit thank you. Ripperdactyls. Untested. This is the unit i am most unsure about. They feel very expensive to me for 40 points a pop on a pretty flimsy body, only T3 and a 4+ save feels quite scary. They do however do a lot of damage with their Blot Toads and they are probably good in the Skirmisher fight even though stand and shoot probably will hurt them. I am looking forward to seeing what i can do with them and i will report back with findings, but i am expecting to find a mediocre unit that does a job our fantastic skinks can do just as well for a lower price. Scarvet on Cold One/on foot Scarvets can actually go in units on a Cold One, with a Horned One that is actually a pretty nice idea. I like going for Scarvets in 1.5K games if you want to run Skink Priest on Steg and Chief Steg to have a source of LD8. They also make our Saurus units quite a bit better as the opponent will have to split attacks between him and the unit, which makes it pretty likely he can go to town with a Great Weapon with his 4 attacks and S7. Decent general in low points, pretty nice with a 3+ save and extra attacks on a Horned One but if you do this you are investing in units that are not that great to begin with, and i think you can do better. Skink Chief on Terradon/Ripper/on foot. Untested Especially the Ripper variant seems kinda interesting when hunting warmachines or maybe even enemy wizards. I have heard of people having good results with the Piranha Blade as one unsaved wound means a dead wizard. I do think people will have to make a mistake to have him slip through without eating a magic missile, so i am not really convinced yet. Requires testing. I do not see me kicking him off his Steg as he makes them so good is the main thing. Jungle Swarms Our other core unit, and a pretty ok one at that. I think they suffer under the fact that skinks are better screens than them, having to invest at least 120 points into a unit that will never do any damage feels kinda suspect to me. If i want a unit that never runs away i would be more interested in the TG shieldwall stubborn trick. Just a bit too expensive if you ask me. C tier Kroxigor. Untested. Unsure about these as well. Chariot Runners with Skinks seems interesting, but anti behemoth work is something our Carnosaurs do better so i do not really see their niche. T4 with a 5+ save makes them even flimsier than Sauri which is kinda scary to me. Low I and low movement also once again does not look like a recipe for succes. I do not really see it, but i am willing to be proven wrong. Skink Priest on foot Decent in lower point games if you really want a caster, but i do not really see going without a Stegadon in anything higher than 1K. Even in 1K i would be very interested to go for a Priest Steg and a Chief Steg. Just do not really see a case for him. Troglodon. Untested. In the head to head with a Skink Priest on a Stegadon, he does look a little bit sad. T5, a bad shooting attack, a bad lvl 1 caster, a bad special rule that is once per game and even then still needs to be rolled for, i do not really see the draw of this guy. Nothing in his kit just makes me want to take him, which is sad because this is exactly the same as in 8th. Maybe he has a role if you want to go double Chief Steg and a Carno to get dispel rolls outside of your character allotment? Not quite sure, but i think the Stegs will always push him out in the end. Terradons. Untested. Like the Rippers, but more shooty? This screams even more worse than just normal skinks to me, and the dropped rocks to not look like something that will really do much. I think worse than skink skirmishers probably covers it nicely. D tier Bastiladon with Arc of Sotek. Untested. Rip away the shooting attack that makes the unit great and you are left with a mediocre ability to buff a mediocre unit you did not want to take anyway. I do not see the draw of them, and i probably never will. Oldblood on Cold One/foot. Untested. I do not see you doing this and not taking a scarvet or putting him on a carno. He has no LD advantages to be a better general at low points.. doing this just feels wrong to me. An Oldblood needs a Carno, and probably even then you go Scarvet. F tier Cold One Knights I am really down on Cold One Knights now they made Stupidity this bad. I have heard people making the case that it is ok because they are so cheap for the damage they do. I just do not see it! They are pretty expensive, only have 1 wound and a 3+ save. A lot of heavy cav, Peg knights, Chosen Chaos Knights and Demigryphs are quite strong so i expect enemy answer into heavy cavalry. Just 10 crossbowmen already kill 1-2 of these lads a turn! You on average fail stupidity once per game which is a really bad base rate. Saying you could stay in range of your Slann is not really an answer i would say as your Slann should be in the center dispelling and casting and they should be on the flanks using their speed! If you survive all the good anti heavy cav shooting and if you manage to never fail your stupidity they are ok, but there are just too many things that can go wrong for too low of a payoff (Demigryphs, Peg knights all do more damage for their points without any drawbacks) for too expensive of a unit. Hard pass for me. Salamander Hunting Pack Oh how the mighty have fallen, these guys were great in 8th. Now, no marching and shooting and having to roll for partial hits make it so their damage has plumeted. You also get no extra distance anymore on the template, making it so you really need to get really close. Worse than skinks once again! Razordon Hunting Pack I honestly do not know what they were thinking with these guys. They lost their main rule of being good and stand and shooting (what is up with that) and they only on average make 2 very mediocre shots per turn for a 60 point model. Worst unit in the book, the only truly unplayable unit if you ask me. Now that i have given you my overview i want to end with the two main list archetypes i see, those are Behemoth and Bastiladon Spam and Double Engine to really see where all these takes have landed me. I think the spam list is honestly the strongest thing we can do at the moment and it has lead to some good results for me, do let me know how it went for you! Lizardmen – Behemoth and Bastie spam - [1997pts] # Main Force [1997pts] ## Characters [972pts] Saurus Scar-Veteran [314pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Great Weapon, General, Armour of Meteoric Iron, Talisman Of Protection, Carnosaur, Heavy Armour, Slashing talons Skink Chief [333pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Additional Hand Weapon, Battle Standard Bearer, Glyph Necklace • 1x Stegadon [215pts]: 5x Skink Crew, Hand Weapon, Javelin and Shield, Great horns Skink Priest [325pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Wizard Level 2, Battle Magic, Earthing Rod • 1x Ancient Stegadon [230pts]: 5x Skink Crew, Hand Weapon, Javelin and Shield, Great horns, Giant Bow ## Core [500pts] Saurus Warriors [140pts]: • 10x Saurus Warrior [14pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield 2x Skink Skirmishers [105pts]: Vanguard • 20x Skink [5pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour 3x Skink Skirmishers [50pts]: • 10x Skink [5pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Javelins and Shields ## Special [525pts] 3x Bastiladon [175pts]: Thunderous bludgeon, Solar Engine, 3x Skink Crew, Hand Weapon, Javelin and Shield And the Double Engines list: Lizardmen – Double Engines - [2000pts] # Main Force [2000pts] ## Characters [720pts] Skink Priest [380pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Wizard Level 2, Battle Magic, Earthing Rod, Talisman Of Protection • 1x Ancient Stegadon [255pts]: 5x Skink Crew, Hand Weapon, Javelin and Shield, Great horns Slann Mage-Priests [340pts]: • 1x Slann Mage-Priest [340pts]: Hand Weapon, Battle Standard Bearer, General, Wizard Level 4, Lore Familiar ## Core [500pts] Saurus Warriors [140pts]: • 10x Saurus Warrior [14pts]: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Shield 2x Skink Skirmishers [105pts]: Vanguard • 20x Skink [5pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Javelins and Shields 3x Skink Skirmishers [50pts]: • 10x Skink [5pts]: Hand Weapon, Light Armour, Javelins and Shields ## Special [525pts] 3x Bastiladon [175pts]: Thunderous bludgeon, Solar Engine, 3x Skink Crew, Hand Weapon, Javelin and Shield ## Rare [255pts] Ancient Stegadon [255pts]: 5x Skink Crew, Hand Weapon, Javelin and Shield, Great horns, Engine of the Gods Thanks for reading, let me know what your experiences have been!
I have also played many games and gone to several tournaments (another one coming up this weekend, wish me luck!). I agree with a lot of what you said: I agree the best 2 units are skink skirmishers and skink chief on stegadon, and I don't think it's close either. I should note that this is true even if your group rules he doesn't have poison and can't shoot the bow. Your skink chief on stegadon can be and should be your BSB, maybe even with war banner. He gets 18" command range and can easily beat entire units in combat by himself. I agree the Slann is bad. I agree cold one riders are too unreliable to take. I agree salamanders and razordons are terrible The places where I disagree: Chameleon Skinks are actually very good. However, I acknowledge that it can be very hard to see why. They compare very badly to regular skinks. Regular skinks are half the cost per model, javelins are probably better than blowdarts, evasive is just terrible. On the surface, there is no reason to take them. However, they are still fundamentally a 55 point unit that can scout, redirect charges, hunt warmachines, put wounds on monsters, delay deployment decisions, etc. This is important because a lot of places are implementing rule of 3 comp, which stops you from taking more than 3 units of regular skinks. Several tournaments I have been to have done this. In this case, I think it is right to take 1-2 units of chameleon skinks in their place. I disagree that the Oldblood is not a worthwhile upgrade over the Scar-Vet, specifically for dragon hunting. The difference between having the best weapon against dragons (the Ogre Blade) and having a Great Weapon is very big. If you're not facing dragons, then I agree it doesn't matter so much. A few additional things I would add to what you wrote, from my perspective: Kroxigor are terrible (which makes me sad, I have like 12 of them painted) Ripperdactyls are terrible Troglodon is terrible I haven't tried the Bastiladon, but seeing you sing his praises so much, maybe I'll give it a shot.
Interesting takes. I think Blade of Revered Tzunki is actually better than Ogre Blade, but multiple wounds is nice i guess. I do not think going Oldblood is always bad, as you see they are quite close in my ranking, but i have personally really not found the points for him with Glyph Necklace, Talisman of Protection, making the Skink Priest lvl 2, Meteoric Iron and having a BSB all edging out the upgrade for me. Maybe in perhaps a hard rule of 3 world you take Chameleons, but i do not think hard rule of 3 benefits the game at 2K because at that point it kinda gets weird. Hard rule of 3 is certainly bad for us and could maybe lead to us wanting to take Chameleons,, but i do not expect hard rule of 3. I hope we go to a 5/3, where there is a rule of 5 for core and a rule of 3 for the rest. Only getting 3 units of zombies is weird for VC, only 3 units of glade guard is kinda odd for WE. It depends on your local TO i guess. And do try the Bastiladon! Keeping him out of dispel range is the key. Shooting lasers is fun and strong, especially vs enemy heavy cav, and he is no slouch if the enemy does close to him either!
@airjamy thanks for your post, i'm scared how much this resemble my opinion of our army XD I want to add my two cents: - giant blowpipes have cumbersome, so can't be used to S&S. giant bow is just better for me. the only thing missing is an errata that specifies who can use it. - chief on terradon is good, both as a wm hunter and as ruby ring user. i tested with bitingblade to flank charge cavalry with good result. - as a older editions player, I have problem with how our saurus hero feels naked, especially when basically every other fighter hero reach easily armour 2+. - most of the problems with the units are their cost, retained from the 8th ed. but now being unbalanced with their rule and performance: cold one are at least 8-9 points too expensive. salamander 15-20 razodon 15-20 troglodon shouldn't cost more than 150 points, as a lv1 mage with T5 and save 5 slann should be 240-250 points as he is now, or 260 with his old ward 4+ chamaleon problem is the change from the addition malus to be shot to elusive, which in a 12" range unit is basically useless when shooted by 24/30" ranged weapons. especially if they cannot be back in range to shoot again the next turn.
Good catch, thanks! I was mistaking it for the rule that gives you -2 when moving and shooting. Never take it though, i always go bow. I guess there are some pretty clearly outlined good units which leads to spamming. Bastie/Skink/Behemoth spam really seems the way to go.
The biggest problem with ripperdactyls is that they are impetuous. Your opponent can often force them to make a super long charge and fail it on the first couple of game turns, which is horrible. Or they can wind up charging the wrong target and get themselves obliterated.
Great post! Agreed on most points but I would've ranked Bastiladon lower (bottom of B). I just can't rate it higher than Stegadons. For me the shooting is too unreliable and the fact that Bastiladon only has 4 wounds so it doesn't take away rank bonuses on a flank charge bothers me. I definitely haven't played it as much as you have so I'm definitely looking forward to testing them more. I think only use for Troglodon is in a list where you fill character slots with a Slann+2xBig monsters but no priest. That way you still get to abuse Arcane Vassal rule. In my experience having a 4th lvl caster is VITAL because magic is so potent. I've been meaning to test dispel scroll/cube of darkness skink priests in lists without Slann but I fear competent opponents can still just dance circles around you.
The Bastie is a full shooting unit that can hold its own in combat. I have them on the far flanks, the whole flanking thing really does not matter. Slann have just really underperformed for me, a Skink Priest on a Steg does the dispelling just fine in my experience. In my experience magic really is not potent. Have seen a lot of meh games from wizards with them not getting their points back at all or being useful at all.
It's a good list and I agree with a lot of comments here: - the Slann is hard to rate, you simply have to take him because of how magic functions but compared to other fourth level wizards he's a bit overcosted - ripperducks are barely B tier if you ignore impetuous. (House rule only for blot toad unit?) With it they are terrible, F tier for sure. - troglodons are difficult to take but are maybe B in 1000 point games. - I don't think bastiladons are A tier - Temple guard are noticeably better than Saurus, maybe not a full grade. The ws4 is a big deal. - I don't think cold ones are F tier. They are costed for their stupidity. I don't like unreliability but that doesn't mean they are F. Probably C I think. - old bloods are easily worth 50p over scarvets
Thanks for your input. Some units are indeed weird to rate. I dislike TG as opposed to sauri mostly because they lose just ad hard to something like Swordmasters while being more expensive. But sauri being required is still strange. I am pretty sure that Basties are a top tier unit, try running them on the flanks, see what they do for you!
TG are 14 points and almost everyone will run them with spears so Saurus at 13. TG also have shieldwall (which you can take for Saurus for an extra points) and stubborn which is huge. Plus they protect your Slann, can take a banner. I don't rate the halberds but they might be okay against units like dwarves. Bastiladon, well I played someone on the weekend whose mate gave him a box of 3 Terral/ripper, 13 skinks,1 priest, 1 bastiladon. He doesn't play lizards so he gave to me for AUD $50 (us $35 and UK £25 ish) so yes I'm keen to try my new bastiladon and see!
TG are 16p/m while saurus start at 14, going up to 16 for spear and shieldwall. Problem is, whitlist is within other infantry, slann is basically untargetable even without TG, except from WE. So we are paying 16 p/m for a second saurus unit that probably will never use their halberd and die as fast as the mandatory one. And a player that know how to play (not even a good player) can bypass their king's guard rule and smash them with any monster. I too think that cold one are really terrible, too priced for a literally stupid cavalry without counter and first charge
Yeah Cold Ones just miss that extra thing to make them good. If they only were T5, or have a 2+ save, or have something like Dark Elves that lets them reroll their first failed Stupidity test, like, anything, they might be ok, but it is just bad.
It's a good point. (Yes I got points wrong) Overall I still feel the TG are much better than saurus but we already have a Saurus unit so at 2000 points, and given how ordinary infantry is in this game, can we take a second? It's a shame for a game like Warhammer if the answer is "no"
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure skirmishes can no longer redirect chargers like they could in 8th Edition.
I agree mostly but consider that Bastiladon gives no AP penalties neither on stomp or impact hits Stegadons give no AP penalties on impact, only on stomp. Ancient Stegadon and strength 6 is usually much better than just Strength 5. Even if you have the chief on it. Poison on Stegadon give a lot of discussion since is a chariot and not a mount and will probably be removed with a FAQ. Cold ones, razordon is just a big NO. Salamander and Troglodon are really weak BUT may found a minor spot in some lists. Kroxigor I don’t really know, worse now but still quite effective against high toughness monster and cavalry (that cannot counter charge since they are infantry). The only problem is that their charge range is so low now compared to cavalry
The functionality is different. Units that charge skirmishers have to charge directly towards the nearest model to them in the skirmisher unit. So you put one model slightly forward and to the side, and if they want to charge, they have to pivot and go off at an angle to meet that model. This can let you "pull" cavalry and monsters off to the side, exposing their flank to the rest of your army when/if they try to charge you.
This is what i was meaning yeah. As i said, the more you play the game, the more useful and tricky skinks become!