I have a question about the carnosaur mount for old blood/scar veteran: - I won a round of close combat - My carnosaur did some wounds and becomes blood frenzy - The enemy is destroyed. Frenzy rule: "If the majority of the models in a unit are Frenzied, it cannot choose to flee as a charge reaction, nor can it ever choose to make a restraint test" Does this mean that de Hero on Carnosaur always has to do a overrun in this case? Or since I have a Old blood on his back, doens't it count as the majority of the models? It really makes me think about the value of this model, because if you play against a straight battle line and charge a unit in the front, you destory one unit, overrun into nothing (back of battle line), you have to use a move or manoeuver to get the arc right next turn. And hope that in the subsequent turn you'll be able to charge again. Love to here some toughts on this or see if I'm missing something.
Yeah it's exactly so and also why carnosaur is quite bad sometimes. You have ALWAYS to overrun if you are frenzy...sometimes i pray that carnosaur doesn't hit so it doesn't becomes frenzy =)
Haha, it might be better for the Carnosaur not to hit... However, this makes playing this model a lot more challenging. Flanking would be a good use, but not much players will give a flank to this monster... I gues I'll have to do great target picking, so it is worth the points. Arcane urgency might be interesting in the turn after overrun. Double move to make sure that there's another possible charge. It is a risk offcourse, casting on 10+, and the slann needs to be at range 15" of the carnosaur... Perhaps trying to get some Skinks in the backline to block overrun, but don't know if this is legit and seems like a lot of IF's in this scenario as well. Curious to here how you guys play this model.
Well it’s legit, but at the same time you risk to don’t kill the following enemy. I usually play it in two ways 1) retarding the charge and threat the enemy with a countercharge (it works very well; even if it costs a lot I can block the same amount of points of the enemy) 2) target from first round the most important units of the enemy, I play often with ogre blade so often are big monsters, dragons (sometimes) and so on. If you play it well usually neither the dragon or you charge the first 3 rounds. A good combo is also with temple guard, challenging blocking whatever and they are stubborn. The turn later will carnosaur come. Often I put the Slann just behind the TG so they cannot neither give ground (and the Slann is safe of a charge). Yes a bit risky if you fail a 3d6 terror with Ld9…. Has happened like twice since I play lizardmen that means 20 years
That's very clear, thanks. 1) I always tend to play aggresive with the model. Reason being we're playing really slow and usually play max. 3 turns during the clubnights... I'll play a tournament soon, so I am currently practicing playing faster in 2h30. Challenging. But I like this tactic, especialy against armies who don't have much shooting and need the close combat. 2) That's what I was thinking about, going for the most important units. However I have been failing charges with my Carnosaur even with the swiftstride rule. But that's just dice luck... There are no Temple guards in my tournament list for the moment, but I like the setup. My Old blood carries the Reversed Tzunki sword. No AS or WS allowed.So he has max damage output against heavy save models. (I'll play against a lot of dwarves.)
Don't forget, if you overrun the enemy, or kill them then pursue onwards, even if you are frenzied you can still test take a leadership test to reform. This can help greatly with getting into better position
Really !? Cool! Good to know! " If a unit completely destroys its enemy in combat and makes an overrun move, can it attempt to reform after moving? Unless it pursued into a fresh enemy, yes. A unit that overruns makes a normal pursuit move and, since its enemy has already been wiped out, it may attempt to reform as if it had run down its foe, as described on page 129. Source: Official Warhammer: The Old World FAQ & Errata - Version 1.2 "
I have tried both,,well Tzunki is better against Bretonnia and high saves heroes, however you have only strenth 6 ant it's a quite big difference against a Dragon with T6. Dwarf Chaos Iron Daemon have also T8 so i'ts good to have a model with T7. D3 wounds is so much better generally against everything else. Heroes on chariots, dragonogres, ogres, other behemots (that you wound to 3+ not 4+) and so on. There are really few things that negate or reduce multiple wounds (an armour as Tomb King) and the Stonehorn in Ogres that can max take 2 wounds at once. For challenges is also the D3 better since you are sure you max the +5. That's the reason I play Ogre blade (that is really inflationated everywhere)
I'll start rereading the rules and FAQ's before I hit the tournament. Having the option to reform after overrun or succesfull pursuit is a gamechanger. Come on dice rolls! I've been doubting for a while about the difference between Tzunki and Ogre blade. Thanks for sharing your toughts on this. What do you meen with "you are sure you max the +5?" the attacks you mean? The potential 5 attacks, multiple wounds being a bigger threat? I haven't played against dragons or other high T models thusfar (only the steamtank). I'm concerned on models with good AS and WS that I won't be getting those wounds through. In that way Tzunki offers more garanteed hits? However I should check the difference between to hit, to wound and possible damage outcome.
I have no really done statistics behind that, but it change a lot between different opponents of course. Lizards suffer a lot big monster like dragon and ogres, and cavalry as well. So the right sword depends from which threat you want to battle against. Tzunki is great against bretonnia, i feel that tzunki or ogre blade are more or less the same against a dragon (since mostly has only 5+ in ward save, not 4+ but they may have regeneration). Ogre blade is much better generally against all other behemots AND ogres/dragonogres. That's my choice. The +5 maxing is just about in challenge to get the maximum bonus from resolution (you need to deal 5 wounds more than the champions wound, often just 1). So 6 hits with 6+4 attacks (and 2 stomps) is pretty sure but if you roll bad you may miss it. Every enemy infantery or bigger unit have 2 ranks close order and banner (and often music) that's the reason to get at least 5 wounds, either you have to test. If you get 6 you are sure about to win even agaisnt warbanner or if BSB is inside the unit.
Hey Kalisto, thanks again for explaining the 5+. It makes sense, it is something I'm always thinking about during play. I try to go for dual charges with an other unit to be sure I get the max combat res. However, I haven't taken this in consideration while building a list. It's a interesting point of view, I will be working with. In the tournament that I will be playing there might be more monsters/behemots than I'm used to, so the Ogre blade might be better. I'm playing warriors of Chaos tonight, I'll see what I can do there with Tzunki and see if the damage outcome would be different with Ogre blade.