8th Ed. The Path to Awesome - Tracking Every Game Ever

Maybe you need to buy some new dice?

Or, try this: When you are rolling for a charge or winds of magic tell your dice "I'm rolling a Ld test, I just need to roll under a 6!" then your dice might roll high!

Joe, this post makes me sad. We've all had these games before. Sometimes you just can't help it. Hang tough brother.

Thanks for the moral support. I've had my share of games where I got blown out or whatever but this was different.

Tomb Kings.

Freaking Tomb Kings beat me. That just shouldn't happen no matter who is using them. They are such a stupidly easy army to beat...if you are any good at all. Therefor, I must not be very good.

You've beaten me with TK before!

And now you have experience against them, so that should not happen again.
Even if it does, though, my case is different. I am superdupermega familiar with Tomb Kings. I know how bad they are and how easy it is to see the few things that matter in a given list, and should never have a problem attacking those things. TK are like a three-legged stool. All you have to do is take out one leg to make it topple. Once a player stops thinking of TK as a table with 50 legs holding it up (like, say, Ogres, Nurgle, or Chaos Dwarfs) and understands they are that three-legged stool, they become by faaaaar the easiest army in the game to beat.

I should be able to take out any TK army in my sleep at this point. Not doing so last night was pretty instructive.

You just need some lord kroak dice - check with qupakoco he might have some extra!

Sleboda said:

I should be able to take out any TK army in my sleep at this point. Not doing so last night was pretty instructive.

Click to expand...

The way you wrote up the game, it sounded like you rolled a lot of 1's and 2's and he rolled a lot of 5's and 6's. If the dice are falling that way the whole game then you can't really expect to win, no matter how bad the TK book is or how good of a player you are.

If he was getting 11 impact hits on his charges while you were getting 2 impact hits and you're getting 1 wound from 30 hits and you never make a ward save from the Engine of the Gods or dispel his spells ... if all that happened and you managed to win the game, then that would say more about the terribleness of the TK book than anything else.

As it stands, anyone that rolls mostly 5's and 6's should beat anyone else that rolls mostly 1's and 2's no matter what army book either of them are playing. That's just how the game works, you can't blame yourself for a bad dice day.

Also, by not taking a Slann or a Dispel scroll you are basically handing the magic phase to your opponent. And against a magic focused army you are going to pay the price for that from time to time. You were a 25 point item away from not getting -3S -3T on your Saurus at a critical moment in the game. I understand why you chose not to use the scroll, but there is a reason that almost everyone considered it an must-include item.

Probably, if you played that same game again 3 more times you'd have won all 3 of them. Dice don't go cold forever. Every time you roll a 1 you're paying it forward for a future 6. The house always wins because everyone eventually rolls a 7.

i dont think the tomb kings are worse than wood elves or beastmen. tomb kings have on (very rare) occasion podium'd in a tiny handful of tournaments. i dont think wood elves are even played.

mark wildman, cohost of the baddice podcast seemed to do alright with the tomb kings. never spectacular, but he would run middle of the pack - 10th pretty regularly.

with that said, i've never actually even played them yet still understand that they are seen as one of the weaker armies. Everything seems to point to them requiring near perfect execution to even have a chance. or lucky dice

on a more serious note tho, i agree with everything the poster above me said. that's the nice thing about dice, sooner or later it'll balance out.

Mark doesn't play Tomb Kings. He plays old High Elves using TK models. I played him last year, so I know.

Also, WE have done quite well in tournament...when people accept how to play them.

Sleboda said:

Mark doesn't play Tomb Kings. He plays old High Elves using TK models. I played him last year, so I know.

Also, WE have done quite well in tournament...when people accept how to play them.

Click to expand...

What?

This is clearly not true, so could you elaborate on what you meant?

His tomb king lists are well documented and easily available online...

I should say this before I go any further. Mark is a great opponent and a fun person. I enjoyed my game against him a great deal.

That said, I told him this myself -

The army he used in that game could have absolutely been High Elves (old book, which was the one out at the time). Right now the specifics of the list elude my memory, but the basics that I recall were a light council, casket and Arkhan (who functioned like a Banner of Sorcery quite nicely). He sat back with bows and Light spells, blasting and shooting away while carrion (eagles) ran a little interference.

Lovely army to look at, fun game to play, but it felt nothing at all like a "Tomb Kingie" army and very, very much like High Elves.



Anyway, I am off to play another game or two. Reports later.

And no, I'm still not using a scroll. Yes, we can point to one moment in the game where it would have been handy last time, but for all the reasons I've gone into the in past, I'm not going to knee-jerk based on one isolated incident.

Go Broncos. Not because I like them, but because I hate the Patriots.

I also hate the pats!

But back on topic... I can understand an army using a play style that doesn't seem very in tune with the aesthetic or feel of the army. The space orks in 40k are currently a very shooting based army which is totally out of character for orks but necessary due to how badly 6 th edition boned CC.

Honestly I think the competitive lizard men style of dance around/flee with skinks while blasting with magic and shooting poison is pretty counterproductive to an army with lots of dinosaurs

Seems like his intention (obviously not him so just my guess) is to try to stay as competitive as possible while still using a subpar army such as the tomb kings.

The various comp systems he plays under probably give tks a small boost, but at the end of the day he's still using a tomb king army governed by the rules in the tomb king book (and whatever comp it is).

Either way, I was just a little confused. Thanks for clarifying can't wait for the battle report. Good luck in your game

Go denver!

Game 23 - 2400 vs. High Elves

Date: January 19, 2014
Opponent: High Elves
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Dawn Attack

Overview
As you've probably noted, I've been making some little tweaks to my list here and there lately. Mostly these involve trying things people have told me I should try, such as the Slann. This time I decided to add in some Chameleons. My core is pretty much right at the minimum and my rares and characters are hard to change, so that meant Specials had to change. There's no way I'm ever using fewer than 8 Kroxigore (would love to get them up to a horde of 18 at some point) and the Bastiladon is too damn cool for school, so it came down to messing with the Rippers. Fine. I dropped 2 of them and added in 6 Chameleons.

My opponent had two bolt throwers and his wizard was on an eagle, so it looked like I had some nice, juicy targets for them. Let's see how it went...


My army:
1 Oldblood on Coldone - Glittering Scales, Dawnstone, Sword of Battle, Egg of Quango
1 L2 Beasts Skink (Wildform, Spear)
1 Scar-vet BSB - Carnosaur (Loping) - Armor of Destiny, Great Weapon, Shield

12 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
12 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
12 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
29 Saurus - Full Command

3 Ripperdactyls
6 Chameleon Skinks
8 Kroxigore
1 Bastiladon - Solar Engine

1 Ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods


His army (sort of) :
General with S6 from something
BSB
L4 Wizard on Eagle (Apotheosis, Flames, Walk, the default magic missile).

30 Sea Guard
30 or so Phoenix Guard
5 Reavers
5 Reavers

Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower
Sky Cutter
Sky Cutter
Lion Chariot
Eagle

We rolled Dawn Attack. From my left to right he had: Bolt (on hill), Phoenix Guard+BSB+General, Wizard, Lion Chariot, Sea Guard, Bolt, Cutter, Cutter, Reavers, Reavers, Eagle.

My stuff was: Krox, Saurus+General, Rippers behind Saurus, BSB Carno, Skinks with wizard, 2 feet of empty space (thanks, Dawn Attack!), Bastiladon, Stegadon behind him, skinks, skinks behind them.

I scouted my Chameleons on the left, near his bolt thrower on the hill and his wizard. I marked his wizard with the Toad. That was for psychological effect more than anything else.

He used Vanguard to move the Reavers toward me.

He went first.

Summary of Events

Turn 1-
He shuffled a bit and reacted to the Chameleons with his wizard by holding him back to try to blast them.

In my turn I was forced to try to make a 21 inch charge from the Rippers to the Lion Chariot because I failed two Ld8 Coldblooded tests. They failed and landed right in front of my Saurus. My right flank of the two monsters and the skinks encircled his Reavers. Also, the priest+skinks headed over there.

Magic killed two Reavers with the Laser.

Shooting wiped out both Reaver units. Javelins are uberwaytotally better than blowpipes. I can't believe they are an even swap. The Chameleons opened up on the wizard with 12 BS4 poison shots...and did no damage at all to the T4, unarmored elf.

Turn 2-
My poor Bastiladon took charges from both Cutters and the eagle. One Cutter failed to make it there. Other stuff shuffled.

His magic started with the Soul Quench spell on my Chameleons, which I stopped. He then got Flames on the Krox and killed one. No biggie. They can take it.

In shooting the bolt thower killed 3 Chameleons, who panicked.
In combat, the Bastiladon died, which panicked a nearby unit of skinks.

In my turn I sent the Rippers toward his wizard and bolt thrower (the Chameleons failed to rally, leaving the table and creating a gap the Rippers could fill). Other stuff got into position (the fleeing skinks rallied).

Magic did nothing except kill another Kroxigor.

My shooting killed an Eagle and put a wound on a Cutter.


Turn 3-
The wounded Cutter charged the skinks, who put two wound on it with Stand and Shoot (again, Javelins for the win).
He cast Quench on the Saurus, and I took it, losing 3 models. I tried to kill off the 19+ Flames and failed.
Shooting finished my Rippers and wounded the Stegadon.
Hand to hand killed 6 skinks, who rolled snake eyes and stayed.

In my turn I tried to bring my shooting and magic into position to blast his wizard, figuring I could take out Flames that way.

Magic got Amber Spear (boosted) on his Mage...and I rolled a 1 to wound.

Shooting failed to kill him too (though did put a wound on the healthy Cutter). Oh well.
In combat, the skinks lost a few guys but hung around.


Turn 4
There was some evil stuff happening to the Stegadon. He got charged by a Cutter and the Lion Chariot. Ouch.
Magic did little. He's level 4. I'm level 2. So what? Who needs a scroll? I even took down the Flames.
Shooting put three wounds on the Carno.
In combat, he obliterated the Stegadon. Damn. You would think T6 3+ and 5W could live to the re-rollable Stubborn check. Apparently not. He overran the Cutter into the flank of the skink+priest unit. Uh oh. He also killed the last skinks that were fighting the Cutter.

My turn was ok. I was falling behind, so I said "eff it." I tossed the CarnoBSB into the Cutter that was attacking my skinks and marched the Saurus up to the Phoenix Guard. I got a skink unit up close to the Cutter that had killed their buddies.

In magic I pretty much figured my Priest was dead so threw 6 dice at a Wildform. If I miscast I might take something with me. If not, fine. It went off without Total Power and he failed, with his L4, to dispel. My saurus were happy.

Shooting took down the heavily wounded Cutter.

Combat was cool. The impact killed some skinks, but my Carnosaur killed his Cutter and that panicked the nearby Lion Chariot. My Carno was then Frenzied and had to overrun.


Turn 5-
My gambit with the Wildform paid off as he opted to not charge my Saurus with his Phoenix Guard. Woot!
Magic killed the skinks guarding my priest.
Shooting killed the Carnosaur and then the priest.
No combat.

I then charged his Phoenix guard with my Saurus+General. I tried to move the Krox toward their flank, but failed my march check and could not get into the side arc. They would not be able to play today, but were holding onto 400VPs.

The combat was so close! I lost a few guys, he lost a few guys and took a wound to his BSB. I had 7 attacks against that BSB, 5 of which were PF. I did only 1 wound. I won the combat by 2. He failed the break by 2, re-rolled and hit the number exactly. Dammit. One more wound to the unit or the BSB and the game wound have pretty much ended then and there with a HUGE lizardmen win. Too bad the Egg of Useless did a total of 3 hits...again. Bummer.


Turn 6-
There was some stuff, but really it was the combat. Over two rounds of fighting, I killed half his unit and he killed a ton of mine. I fled in the bottom of 6, but got away. It was time to add it up.

Result: 898 VPs to him. 765 for me. A 33 point loss. Sooooo close!


Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
What a cool game. This game was 8th edition in so many ways. Swings, big units, big spells...just a lot of fun. I was a single wound away from a big win, but I'm sure there were things like that on his side too that we just didn't track. Neat game.

Ripperdactyls
Hmm. I want to like them, but they keep disappointing me. I'm pretty sure that taking only 3 was dumb. 8th is all about more and taking my unit from 5 down to 3 just to get some stupid chameleons was a bad mistake. I'm thinking about dropping these guys soon.

Chameleons
So, yeah, not really seeing it. The S3 hits they generate are pointless, so you are counting on Poison. 12 shots gets you 2 poison hits. Then you get shot and die because even though they are hard to hit, they are weak and have low Ld and thus they die and run. Bad unit. Out they go.

Bastiladon
He distracted, sucked up dispel dice, and filled his role. As always, points well spent.

Ancient Stegadon
Burning Alignment ate a scroll! See, this is one of many reasons I don't take scrolls. Like my opponent tonight, I'm sure I would just waste it anyway. Anyone play the old arcade game Defender?
He disappointed me with his failure to absorb damage, but Lion Chariots are pretty damn awesome. I am really starting to think that 280 is too much though.

Skinks
Javelins. Javelins, javelins, javelins. The debate is over for me. An effective 24 inch range where you don't pay for moving is fantastic. Get a Wildform and even the non-poison shots can mean something (in fact, I tried that and he tossed a bunch of dice to stop it).

Saurus
Man, they were so close to pulling off a nice win for me. I totally understand why Temple Guard are not Core though. The better save and Strength would put regular Saurus on the shelf pretty quickly. Still, I would love for TG to be Core.

My unit is basecoated right now (and has been for at least 12 years or so) and I don't want to finish them because if the PF rule or Supporting Attacks rule change, I'm going spears. Until then, these guys really are just a nice solid option.

Priest
Yep. There you go. He was a 2+ away from winning me the game with that Spear. His Wildform on the Saurus bought me a turn and probably kept my loss at just 30 points. I honestly see no need to use a Slann. The myth that armies need a Level 4 caster to stay in the arms race is just that - a myth.

BSB on Carnosaur
My 'sit back, support, and pounce later' approach was in full effect in this game. He saved my priest, earned my some VPs and allowed me to survive several failed Ld checks (many of which were only made due to the boosted range for being Large). Even when the Carnosaur died the BSB himself held those VPs, even surviving a round of 30 shots at him (T5, 2+ save, 4+ ward...oh yeah!). He's a mainstay for sure.

Oldblood
That Egg is just too damn random for my liking. I need to get rid of it and buy a better weapon to make use of PF more. On the flip side, I had one round were my 6 initial attacks resulted in 7 wounds to his Phoenix Guard. Go PF! Yep. Cowboys. Gotta get more.

Kroxigor
They were a failed March check away from winning me the game. Had I flanked the Phoenix Guard when I wanted to, I would have smashed them and won handily. This was even after losing 2 or 3 to Flames. Gotta take 8. Never fewer. I just love these guys. They took so much of his attention, held VPs, and were just that close to doing great things.


Thanks for reading!

Great read sounds like a fun game. Honestly your battle reports have made me want to invest in a Bastiladon or two. More often than not the laser seems to do some nice damage. And venusaur is awesome.

As you said 8th is all about more and I think that applies to the chameleon skinks. Can't expect just 1 unit of six to be amazing in every game.

Failing to wound on 12 shots of poison against an unarmored target is pretty bad luck. I've been in the same situation and have done tons of wounds. If the chameleon skinks had just killed that wizard they would have more than made up for their points.

A few sixes and they would have gotten a draw, or possibly won the game for you. Might be a bit premature to completely write them off

I think the rippers have had plenty of time tho. I think you've pretty much seen all you're going to out of them.

And I think I'll keep my level 4

Sounds like a great game!

I think it's cool that you don't use dispel scroll! Have you considered filling that empty arcane slot with something nasty?

"I see you have a very expensive wizard on an eagle,.. would be an awful shame if something,.. happened to it "


Edit: Or a Power Stone, being rather cheap. I'm thinking it will help mitigate those winds that are unfavorable. When opponent struggles with low dispel pool you get the upper hand at landing that potentially game changing wildform.

Nice to hear that after such a soul-crushing game against the TK, you had a really fun one against the HE's!

On your TK game, I'm gonna Monday-morning-quarterback ya a bit - hope you don't mind

Regarding the early Krox move that created a front-flank combo with the Knights and Chariots - do you think that you could have prevented that combo altogether, other than relying on magical/shooting damage from the rest of the army?

Like could you have:
Wheeled the Krox such that the chariots would not have been in the flank, while still not losing any (or very much) distance from the Knights?
Moved in such a way to make one of the charges further while still projecting the same effective threat?
Moved a Skink unit in front of the chariots to prevent a direct charge into the Krox on the same turn as the Knights?

I guess what I'm getting at is, the risk/reward for the TK player seemed (based on your description) to be well worth it for him. I know you've played with TK a lot, and I understand what your many games of experience meant for you in this situation, but I would say that most players would risk a Front/flank combo with their combat units (especially units like chariots who have soo much of a bonus when charging) against another combat unit in a situation where they know they will get ALL of their attacks and where their opponent would likely not be steadfast at the end. All he had to do was kill 2 Krox, and you wouldn't be steadfast if he won (cause you probably weren't going to kill 4 chariots, or even 3 if you had killed 1 with shooting/magic). From there it would just be a matter of who was better at rolling 4's to hit (again, with him getting his first).

Obviously, the worst that could happen, did happen. But I sure do feel like that combat was no gimmie for you, even if you had killed a chariot before the fight via your shooting/magic.


On the HE game, rough luck failing the Frenzy check on the Rippers and the March check on the Krox. Those were some very key Ld failures on an army that really shouldn't fail like that.


On your list in general, I'd say the Egg should go. I'm a big fan of the Piranha Blade on my Oldblood. Those multi-wounds really allow him a chance to take on just about anything (especially if you can Wildform him).

I also think that in your build you probably do need to choose between the Rippers and the Chameleons. Or, at least if you are taking the Chameleons, you should drop the Rippers, since the combat effectiveness of 3 in the army is poor, imo.

While I respect your aversion to the Dispel Scroll, what about some cheaper items that can still have a decent in-game effect? The Scroll of Shielding (4+ ward against 1 damage spell) is a good way to mitigate a big damaging spell. Also the Sceptre of Stability can prove really key for 1 dispel attempt that you just barely fail to stop.

And for goodness sake man, Sharpen your Stegadons horns!

Anyways, keep having fun with it!

As always, thanks for the continued interest and comments, everyone.

@GhostWarrior - I don't mind the Monday Morning QB stuff at all. In fact, I welcome it. Mo' insight = mo' killin' next time.

General responses to thoughts in last few posts -

Yeah, the scroll has just got to stay gone. Has anyone played the old Midway classic "Defender?" If so, and you always misused your smartbombs and still got killed, then you know a major reason I don't use Dispel Scrolls.

As to other arcane stuff, well, yeah, fer sher. With my TK I pretty much always took a Power Stone, and often took the Feedback Scroll. Combined with Khatep's Scroll of the Cursing Word (or whatever it was called), I had some fun blasting unsuspecting wizards and shifting the magic phase my way. I think the reason I've probably not used some of that stuff, Power Stone in particular, is due to my deliberate attempt to play Lizardmen as "not Tomb Kings" and those items were mainstay items for my Tomb Kings. That said, I will almost certainly use a Power Stone next time.

The Rippers are going to take a small vacation to allow me to go to 9 Chameleons and try a few other things. I will also be dropping the Egg and getting the Sword of +2 Attacks. I took the Egg initially so that I could send my Oldblood out into units on his own and counter static CCR. Clearly I have not even been sending him off on his own, so there's really no reason for the Egg. Add in just how miserable the Egg has been at killing stuff and how well he does with straight up attacks, and it just seems like the smart things to do to add in the +2 Attack sword.

This may also get the Troglodon back in. My playstyle and tactics have evolved slightly, and my understanding of the army has grown. I had been trying to get the Trog's roar to help the Kroxigor, but now I am thinking that the Saurus unit with a 7 Attack Oldblood (yowza!) might really whoop up on something if they get PF on a 5! This last game would have been mine with just a single additional wound, and surely the Roar would have given me that...right? Yeah, probably not with my luck, but if I can convince myself of it then I'll have more reason to get back to adding in another monster to the list, which is like Thing Number 1 that drew me in after I decided to shelve the Tomb Kings.


On the use of Krox in last battle -
I know it's hard for readers to really be able to tell without photos (some day, I promise!), but the set up would not have allowed for any of the thoughts mentioned by GhostWarrior. It really was either hang back a while or go for it and trust in the total crappiness of Tomb Kings to save me. I actually welcomed the Knights, like I said. Remember, I thought I would be able to get the chariots down to S4 impact, but failed. When they kept their S5, I knew I might be in trouble. I told my opponent the game would come down to one Ld check, which I meant to be the one the Krox would have to pass after the fight with just the chariots. It was a gamble, but with re-rollable coldblooded Ld and knowing that TK suck, I figured I could hold out against S4 chariots. Things never go as planned, obviously, and it went to hell quickly.


Sharpened Horns - Nope. I rarely get the charge off with this guy, and it's almost never against multi-wound models when I do, so the points would most often be wasted, and in my basic list, points are freakin' precious.


@Putzfrau - Get that Bastiladon now!

Game 24 - 2400 vs. Dark Elves (#8 vs Regular Opponent)

Date: January 22, 2014
Opponent: Dark Elves (the regular opponent)
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Battleline

Overview
I decided it was time to see if Salamanders were all they were cracked up to be, and I was also determined to get more out of my Oldblood and his kit.

My list:
1 Oldblood - Glittering Scales, Sword of Strife and Dawnstone - on Coldone
1 Scar-vet BSB - Carnosaur (Loping) - Armor of Destiny, Great Weapon, Shield
1 L2 Beast Skink - Power Stone

12 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields

28 Saurus - Full Command

8 Kroxigore
1 Bastiladon - Solar Engine

1 Ancient Stegadon - Engine of the Gods
2 Salamanders


His army (sort of) :
Hag with Obsidian Blade on Cauldron with 16 witch elves and Razor Standard

General on Dragon with +3S Blade, 1+ Re-rollable, and more
BSB on Cold One with Sword of Might and more
9 Cold Ones

5 Warlocks with Doombolt and Soulblight

5 Shades
16 Corsairs with handbows
16 Crossbowmen
Bolt Thrower
Kharybdiss

We had sort of a standard deployment of terrain - a building in my zone, some rocks in his, a few hills on my right and a forest on my left (Woods that made Fear).

Most of our stuff was lined up centrally, though I had two skink units on either flank (with the wizard in on on the right).

Summary of Events

After turn one, not much had happened. I had shot three shades dead and paniked the others into the rocks. The salamanders did a whopping 2 wounds to the witch elves and took 2 wounds on a beast in return from shooting.

After turn two, things were a little different. I killed a Warlock. His knights pulled off a long distance charge into my Kroxigore, cast Frenzy on them, and wiped out my unit. Great.

The Salamanders fled from the charge of the witch elves.

I charged the Oldblood on his own (at last!) into the witch elves and cauldron. The Saurus moved up to block Kharybiss but could not off his angle to the flank of the Stegadon.

Shooting killed 3 or 4 corsairs.
Magic got an Amber Spear in the flank of his knights, killing 5.

I did 1 wound to his Hag and took no wounds back, but still lost the combat due to ranks and banner. The oldblood held his ground.

After turn three I was in serious trouble. The Bastiladon was charged by the corsairs. A unit of skinks was charged in the flank by the recovered shades, who annihilated them and overran into the bastiladon. The dragon lord charged my BSB on Carnosaur and killed both of them. Super.

Kharybiss hit the flank of the Stegadon, doing 3 wounds. I held and did some damage back. In my turn of combat I finished his monsters off, but was down to one wound left on the stegadon.

Oh, yeah, the big thing - He cast Total Power Boosted Soulblight with the Warlocks. My whole army was -1S and -1T. Awesome. All it did to him was wound one Warlock. That unit is amazing.

Due to Soulblight, my Oldblood took a wound but he did manage to kill the Hag and some witches. Still lost. Still held.

After turn four it was really bad. The dragon charged the stegadon and the knights hit the saurus in the flank. The dragon killed the stegadon and overran into the other flank of the saurus. Between the knights and the dragon, I lost 8 saurus but did not flee.

The battle between the Oldblood and the witches continued. In two rounds of combat I took no more damage but killed about 4 witches.

The Bastiladon killed the shades and a corsair.

The salamanders had rallied but got shot some more and lost a beast.

After turn five it was over.
The Saurus got wiped out and the dragon charged the Oldblood. Knights came around and hit the Bastiladon, doing 3 wounds and making it run away.

The dragon easily killed the Oldblood.



Result: I lost pretty much my whole army and he lost Kharybdiss and the Shades. Total Victory for the Waloc...I mean, Dark Elves.

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
I am going to regret asking him why he was not using Warlocks. Now he will use them all the time, and probably two units. Why take a L2 sorceress when you can take better wizards with more wounds, more mobility, a built-in ward save, and safety from miscasts? Awesome.

This game really hinged on two moments: Total Power Boosted Soulblight cast with no risk at all (gosh - a scroll would not have helped there!) and the long distance charge of the Knights killing my Kroxigor.

Oh well. Next time.

Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
Once again they did a nice job. Blowpipes are pretty much never going to appear in my list again.

Saurus Warriors
They were troopers, I suppose, but ultimately failed again. All game long I think I got a TOTAL of 5 PF hits between them and my 7-Attack Lord. Steadfast is nice, but these guys just melted away.

Bastiladon
Even though I never got to use his laser gun, he drew plenty of attention and did earn me one of my only two kills during the game. As always, points well spent.

Ancient Stegadon
I am becoming increasingly disillusioned with this guy. 280 points is about 50-75 points too much. At least I was glad to not have wasted points on sharpened horns. This would have been another game where they did nothing. I tried Wildform at one point on 6 dice and failed, even with his help. Yawn.

Kroxigor
Early on I retreated, thinking I'd be safe from his knights. Too bad my Single Least Liked Rule in 8th Edition came back to bite me again. I HATE random charge distances so, so, so much.

I really need to get to a Horde of these. Anyone got 10 spare models to trade (need older version only)?

Saurus BSB on Carnosaur
His Ld re-rolls were useful earl on, and it took a Dragon to kill him. I love the model and like what he does in my army despite the death he sucked down this time.

Skink Priest
That Amber Spear was sweet. Too bad when I tried it again his Warlock ward save meant it did no damage. Also, a failed 6-dice Wildform really sucked. I never even got to try the Power Stone. This game reinforced for me how capricious magic is and solidified my idea to never use a Slann at under about 5000 points.

Salamanders
Slann? Tried it. It sucked. It's gone.
Chameleons? Tried them. They sucked. They're gone.
Salamanders? Tried them. They sucked. They're gone.

Three for three on those things that people tell my just gotta use (sort of like a dispel scroll).
I don't understand what people see in them, and now they won't see my table.

I think I really need to stop toying with these 'special effect' units (including rippers) and focus on monsters, javelins, and troops.



Thanks for reading!

The overview is a bit off, talking about slann and stuff.

Man that DE-army is tough! Warlocks seems amazing and they're just a bit over 100pts for five aswell! And them CoK on the charge seem to be the ultimate doom for krox Too bad the salamanders failed you miserably. It's really a good unit they should have had a whale of a time against some T3 witches! I think you need more that one game for a new unit to "settle" in your list. Not forcing you to do it, obviously, just sayin'


If you're going to drop the EotG, will you be downgrading to a baby steg instead then? Great read as always! =)

Re: Game 24 - 2400 vs. Dark Elves (#8 vs Regular Opponent)

Sleboda said:

Slann? Tried it. It sucked. It's gone.
Chameleons? Tried them. They sucked. They're gone.
Salamanders? Tried them. They sucked. They're gone.

Three for three on those things that people tell my just gotta use (sort of like a dispel scroll).
I don't understand what people see in them, and now they won't see my table.

Click to expand...

it confuses me you continue to say things like this.

you used those three units for a total of 1 game each (unless you're playing a lot more games then you are writing here).

i dont really understand how you expect to get a promising result from a unit you've used one time. It takes at least a couple games to get a feel for the unit and see what it can really do.

you even gave the rippers several games before eventually ditching them.

you seem to have used the slann/chameleons/salamanders with the mindset of "why bother" and then are unimpressed when they do nothing in one game (which shouldn't surprise you). You then use this tiny anecdotal evidence as the be all end all of why these units are garbage and aren't "must bring".

if you're going to make such disparaging comments about the units you should have given them a fair shake. you haven't, so i think your comments of "tried them. they suck." are extremely off base and misleading.

theres a fantastic reason why most lizardmen armies take those three units. that overwhelming mountain of data should show you that perhaps you were using them ineffectively, or perhaps they simply dont fit your play style. instead you just seem to dismiss them, as if everyone else is wrong and you are not.

honestly it comes off a little ignorant. its one thing to use something, decide its not for you, and build a list your more comfortable with. its another entirely to say "they suck" and question why anyone brings them after a tiny handful of poor showings.

if you honestly feel they are that terrible, whats your explanation for their presence in the vast majority of well performing tournament lists?

is it a matter of you using them poorly, or everyone else not seeing what you see?

regardless, a great read as always. maybe you'll consider giving them another showing, maybe not. either way i eagerly anticipate the next report!


edit: just wanted to say, that i hope you dont find my criticism offensive in anyway. i'm not trying to speak disparagingly of you, merely understand your point of view. its a situation where i literally couldn't imagine my army without the slann, so i find it very curious you have such disdain for it, as well as the other "popular" units.

also i've read through this thread a few times, and almost no one unit has "wow'd" you right off the bat, but with most of them you stuck with it. javelins are a perfect example i think. you started off this thread by adamantly believing blowpipes were superior, but slowly your opinion has changed as you've used javelins in more situations and gotten to see the benefits.

you once found kroxigors difficult to use effectively, and have since found ways to make them work. on some occasions they do nothing, and on others they bring the pain.

is it so far-fetched to believe that with another half dozen games you would see the benefit of any of those units? especially with the slann who relies on your WoM not completely sucking all the time.

especially considering salamanders will do nasty things to blocks of toughness 3 on a vast majority of occasions. killing 2 witch elves with two salamander breaths is pretty low odds, unless the template only managed to catch a few of them in the first place.

meh, i realized this may of come across a little harsh, but you seem to be a well spoken guy so i'm just gonna leave my comment as is and assume you'll understand my meaning even if i wasn't super clear.