Hello again. A friend of mine and I currently building armies, and are going to have a match later on this month or so. He's playing a Warriors of Chaos force, and I'm looking for some advice against him. He's more then a bit cocky, and spent the past few weeks talking down on my faction. Frankly, I want to show the warm-blood that his army is not as invincible as he thinks it is. His army is a mix of Khorne and Tzeentch units. Core is armoured warriors, augmented with large units of Chaos trolls, which are core since he's taking Throgg. Skull Takers of Khorne are his rare choice. He's also bringing Wulfrik to the table. Not sure if he's bringing any Marauders, and his use of magic seems like it'll be fairly minimal. He has plans to eventually bring Belakor to the table, but I don't think he'll have him for the first match. A mix of Marks of Khorne and Marks of Tzeentch. My own force composition is more fluid. I currently have around sixty Saurus (intend to use spears), thirty skinks (thinking javelins), eight Cold One Cavalry (intend to get more), and a Slaan. Other units I would like include Bastiladons with solar engines, skink priests, Tetto'eko, stegadons, officers mounted on Carnosaurs with various load outs, etc. Where I need the most help is in synergy, the weaknesses of a Chaos force, and the proper use of magic. How much is too much? With what I intend to create, what weaknesses will be apparent and exploitable? And, for a personal joy, how can I tool up a hero to take out Wulfrik in a challenge? Any and all help would be appreciated.
If I were you, I'd bring a Slann with lore of Metal to eat through his armour, not that good woth spotting weaknesses myself, but to take out Wulfrik? 1/2 Scar-vet cowboys with great weapons and heavy (magical) armour should do it
I agree with the Slann. Metal with really hurt his warriors. Stegadons with sharpened horns will hurt those trolls. Trolls are also really bad at taking LD tests. Bait those frenzy Khorne units with skinks.
Trolls fare quite poorly when deprived of Ld boosting characters. I would advice Death if he's taking Throgg. If you can knock Throgg out that will cripple his trolls. Or you could take Lore of Fire for troll burning. Otherwise I'd go with Metal if he's not taking Throgg. Since you are getting lore advice all over the place, perhaps a spell swapping High Slann?
Throgg is tough to crack for Lizards... There isn't really anything in the army that can take him out effectively. Aside from throgg and the Trolls, Saurus characters laugh at WoC though, so I would definitely take at least a few. The best way I can think of for dealing with throgg would be putting the flaming banner on the Slann and keeping him out of units until you are nearing combat with throgg. As mentioned, by others, the death signature spell is the other answer to him (You can get it with any of 4 different lore options High magic, wandering deliberations, death, or loremaster high.) For magic I would go with high magic. It gives you the option to swap for death/metal, and arcane unforging can crack their 3++ characters, or mitigate the effectiveness of other characters (If you cast unforging on throgg, he loses the leadership bubble, because it is given by a magic item). Alternatively you could go with the wandering deliberations, metal, death, or Beasts (Beasts is actually quite good vs Warriors. Wyssans helps you crack through their armor saves, Pann's pelt lets you fight Throgg or the Daemon prince easily, and Amber spear is a pretty good way to kill off/weaken chariots or monsters.) Definitely take a mounted old blood with a 4+ ward save though, the exra wound gives you something to fight almost anything in his army on it's own. The only thing they can bring that it loses a challenge to is Throgg (That breath weapon is OP). Saurus heroes can take on skull crushers and chariots with relative ease, though core saurus are pretty abysmal if he isn't running a lot of infantry. If he is, they are fine, but you need to take them in big units (36+), and likely buff them with magic. Of everything you might face, Throgg is definitely going to be the biggest issue, so make sure you try to answer him as early as possible. Aside from what has already been said: chaff is necessary for redirecting the khorne troops, and they are great vs Warriors if he isn't running a lot of chariots.
I don't think he's running any chariots. Throgg and his trolls are definitely my big worries in the coming match. Thanks for the help, should hopefully come in handy.
I had a friend come over this weekend, he plays WoC. We played 3 games and they were all an uphill struggle with 2 of them me just getting face rolled. Hard. While being told to bend over. Needless to say the last game wasn't really enjoyable for me. Losing 25 templeguards in one go is just too much. Anyway, so here are my thoughts: Mark of Nurgle is ridiculous so consider yourself lucky your friend isn't doing that. His warriors are still going to outclass even our templeguards. Without MoN, however, you can bring more bodies than him, hit him on 4+, wound him on 3+ and he can save on 6. He'll hit back on 3+, 3+ (2+ if GW) and more attacks though, so make sure to have enough bodies to stay steadfast OR have the slann in the unit. I haven't had my slann in the TG unit and I didn't have a champ either (Eye of the God). Pick high magic and get what you need in the first round of combat. Also consider bringing a skink priest with lore of beast and try and get amber spear. A boosted amber spear is S10 D6 multple wounds. Watch out for his lords (their lords will beat ours) and demon prince. If he intends to bring wulfrik and throgg be careful of your oldblood (if you bring any). Our OB will hit last and they come at S7 and 8 so they can chew up a rerollable armour save of 1 easily. Dont charge stegadons up in the front of skullcrushers. It might do some wounds, but their AS1+ will still save any wounds on 4+. When that is done they'll proceed to kill it off in one go. Try and get searing doom off on these or something like that. If he decides to have them. Overall though I'm not sure what the general way to beat WoC is when playing as Lizardmen. All our units are inferior in close combat so if your magic and shooting fails you, you have to make sure your doing combined charges and hope for the best.
Personally I would go with a WD Slann: -trolls---->burning gaze, fireball -hero level characters(including throgg), chimeras---->spirit leech -chariots, knights, warriors, crushers---->searing doom -wyssan's, ice shard, miasma are powerful buffs that on their own can tilt the combat in your favour Scroll+cube is also of the essence. The alternative is FoM: -unforging---->tzentch 3++, throgg(the 18' bubble is from his crown item, kill that and let the stupidity begin) -convocation---->fried warriors or trolls -drain magic---->adding to the magic shut down(get rid of:glittering scales, enchanted blades, treason) -WBW----> Yey fast salamanders(redundant with convocation) -you can adapt your spell selection, unfotunetally, it's sometimes too late
I agree with the above that WD is an amazing choice. There are so many things that you can cast that he needs to worry about that it is silly, fireball on trolls, searing doom on skullcrushers, death snipe on anything, miasma and iceshard in one combat? Uhh yes please. But the most important question has not been answered yet. What point cost are you playing at?
It's going to be a 2500 point match when all is said and done. And yeah, either Wandering Deliberations or Focus of Mystery seem a must for the fight.