8th Ed. Updated FAQ

Was there a faq that said you can overrun on undead that crumble? I thought you couldnt. sorry if I'm just being ignorant. I have a friend who plays VC and says I cant overrun when they crumble and I always thought that you can.

 

If you charged that turn, you can overrun. If it is any subsequent combat phase you can only reform.


Q: If a unit charges into combat and, on the turn it charges, the last
of the enemy unit it is fighting are removed as casualties due to
Daemonic Instability, the Unstable special rule, Cornered Rats or as
a result of a War Machine failing its Break test, does the charging
unit get to make an Overrun move? (p58).
A: Yes.

 

A previous FAQ said exactly the opposite than the above quote...when that previous FAQ came out it had large ramifications. Thankfully it was corrected.

 

Bingo.

At least for Saurus, anyway. Its actually good for Temple Guard and Kroxigor who can make those additional attacks count.

 

For the price of a Trog you could get 4 more Kroxigor! Maybe worth it if you've spent your entire Special Allotment already and really want more attacks from your Kroxigor.

 

=> Perhaps, so it's good that this is not what I am doing. Like so many things, it's not just one isolated thing making me go one way or another. I might indeed get a boost from taking my 25 Saurus to 40 Saurus and putting them in horde, but not enough (in my mind) to justify it. I might get a boost by taking spears, too, but not enough. I might get more from my current unit of 24 by adding a Troglodon as well, but again, not enough. However, once I go horde, add spears, boost PF, and also get to toss in Burning Alignment...well, now we are getting somewhere! Now I can see enough coming together to justify the money and time needed to make this all happen. A tipping point is reached.

In a way, it's like how I evaluate Tomb Guard for Tomb Kings. The rules needed are much more clear, so that's not important for the point I am about to make. What is important is the though process. Here goes -

Right now, I won't field Tomb Guard in numbers below 40 (well, 39 and added characters). They just don't do much for me in smaller numbers. I also strongly feel that +2 points for a halberd (and the loss of parry) is exorbitant. Lastly, their WS is pathetic for weak troops, not to mention their durability.

I might be tempted to say it's never worth using Tomb Guard.

But...

Go horde. Add halberds. Add a King with the Destroyer to boost WS and deal with Thunderstomping monsters. Add Ramhotep to get Frenzy and Hatred.

Now we're in business!

Sure, I've invested heavily in the unit, far more than just a unit of 20 with hand weapon and shield, but suddenly it all comes together to make the unit worth it. The combined effect reaches a critical mass of power where the unit starts to function.

I'm looking at Trog+Burning+Spears+horde in much the same way.


The complication, of course, is that I may not be justified in doing so since two of the factors in that combo are debated and there is no good reason to think the debate will be solved any time soon.

=> Maybe the above will help show that it's not just about a 16% increase in Attacks.



* Also, I'm rarely accused of being rational when it comes to my approach to Warhammer.

 

Can I have the reference for the faq stated above. I cant seem to find it in my version. That would really help me out as my friend's favorite quote is "show me where it says that in the rules!"

 

I think you should just see if one or two people will let you play that army with the "house rules" for PF and Burning Alignment (the house rule that all 6's gain additional attacks regardless of rank, I wouldn't try for the "no limit to supporting attacks*" idea), just to see how it does. It would make for an interesting battle report.

However, I don't think that it is an army build that is worth putting that much money into even if those house rules were the official rules.

Nobody is going to run headlong into a horde of Spearmen with an Engine of the Gods right next to it. If they do, it'll only happen once, or it'll be some crazy unit like a horde of Witch Elves that will super-frenzy ASF your horde into just a handful of Saurus before they even get to attack. And Saurus aren't fast enough to force someone to fight them (Maybe if you vanguard them with Tetto'eko? But even that will only work once before you get Vanguard-blocked by Scouts or other Vanguards).

Of course, nobody runs headlong into a horde of Witch Elves either... similar avoidance tactics would be used against your Spearmen. Your Spearmen that are still only I1 and will be destroyed by Purple Sun (or crippled by any #6 spell). Your Stegadon and Troglodon that will be wiped out by Cannons or Bolt Throwers (or Magics).

If you're still going no-Slann, then your only hope for Burning Alignment to go off is to throw 6 dice at it, but that's only going to work 25% of the time. And even then it's only adding d6 S4 hits to the combat you're in. It'll at least give you a chance to weaken/take out some fast cav/scouts before they obliterate the nearly defenseless Troglodon) And if you are running a Slann then your Power Dice should be going towards his spells rather then the Engine's.

One of the good players around here (places high/wins GTs) was running a 50 man block of Spearmen and an Engine and we were playing with "all ranks get PF" and burning alignment worked like a bubble and into combat. And he was not winning with that combo.

So, I say try it. Nobody will judge you by not "playing by the rules" for a couple games. I'd love to read the battle reports! I just don't think the Lizardmen would come out victorious if that's what they bring to the table, even with the rules bent in their favor.

*If there is no limit to supporting attacks, then a Witch Elf Horde will put out so many ASF attacks they might kill things that aren't even in combat with them!

 

The FAQ is here: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/Warhammer/WARHAMMER-RULEBOOK-.pdf

And that ruling is on the top of "page 7" (there are 2 "pages" per PDF page, so it's actually page 4 of the PDF) in the 2nd column and it's highlighted in maroon.

Do you have a copy of the April_13 FAQ? There is confusion here as to whether the FAQs that GW posted to the Black Library are actually the latest FAQs or if they (for some reason) posted old FAQs after the website change. The current FAQ says it is v1.8 and I believe the April_13 FAQs were v1.8, but if anyone had downloaded that PDF before the FAQs were taken down/reposted I would be interested in seeing them compared.

 

First off, I feel like it's time to once more point out how lovely it is that lots of folks on this forum are inclined to discuss the finer points of our hobby without getting into mud slinging. It's better than the two sides of the aisle in most political systems, that's for sure.

=> To what end? Why give myself false hopes or even bother to explore a way to play that is waved aside by anyone who rightfully wants to play the game by the rules? I understand the interest (and can sympathize with it), but I just don't see any benefit - at all - for hurting myself that way.

=> I can't believe I am about to say this (and anyone else here who also goes to the TK forums better not sell me out ), but if I can get my non-marching Tomb Guard to win the day for me through engagements, I am pretty sure the doubled movement of Saurus, not to mention the occasional Walk Between Worlds, will make it even easier to get my guys into the fight when needed. Not always, of course, since there are no guarantees in Warhammer, but I suspect I'll be able to pull it off more often than not. That's not ego talking either. It's just my TK experience (and trust me, I was FULLY on the side of "I'm never going to even get this unit into a fight!" side of things for a long time - until I tried it) guiding me.

=> Sure, that's the 'on paper' way it would play out, but you know what? Sometimes they don't get the spells they way, or fail to cast, or you dispel, or cannons blow up, or...you know...tactics.

=> Because it is only a D6 S4, I will figure out the right times to use it, and how much pressure I can exert with it. Maybe all it will do is draw out two dispel dice. Maybe it will go off and kill some nearby weak stuff. Maybe all it will do is kill 2 guys fighting the Saurus and 2 guys fighting the Krox (it is area effect, after all, so it's not it's only D6 hits). Who knows? I don't. Neither does my opponent. That's always a fun dynamic to play out on the table.

 

To get back on topic just a bit, GW released more updated 40k FAQs, and has stated that FAQs for digital only productions like sisters of battle and dataslates are coming soon.

Sounds promising to me. I imagine we'll either see some rumors of 9th or some updated FAQs pretty soon.

 

The hot rumor over at Warseer right now is that GW is going to discontinue WHFB... so, there's that.

 

lol yea that rummor has poped up a couple times a year for at least the last 7 years or so.

 

I swear, sometimes it seems like people go out of their way to find something to complain/worry about.

 

I doubt they would combine DOC/WOC especially since they have gone through such effort to make them separate. That being said, being able to have my beastmen chariot army with Chaos Knights and dragon ogres again, I would really like that to happen

 

Even if they planned on discontinuing fantasy you'd think they could leave us with a good final set of FAQ's