7th Ed. Saurus Warrior FAQ and Strategy

Saurus Warriors

The backbone of the Lizardmen army and the second-most elite core infantry in Warhammer Fantasy.

Upgrades:

Spears - Spears cost 1 point per model. Spears allow the models to attack in two ranks, when they have not moved that turn. Since Saurus Warriors have two attacks each, this gives you the potential for a massive amount of attacks. For example, if a unit of 10 Saurus Warrior in two ranks of five fight an enemy, they have a total of 20 attacks.

(2 Attacks X 5 models in Rank 1) + (2 Attacks X 5 models in Rank 2) = 20 Attacks

The Spear is also listed as “additional equipment”. This means if you take this upgrade, you still also have the Hand Weapon. This gives you the strategic choice of whether to use Spears or Hand Weapons in combat. Spears obviously give you a great number of attacks. Hand Weapons will give you an additional +1 Armor Save in close combat with your Shield.

Champion – The Champion upgrade costs 12 points. The only statistical bonus of the Champion is an additional attack. The other advantage of a Champion is that they may accept and initiate Challenges. This can be useful if you are protecting a Character in the unit from Challenges.

Most players will recommend against a Champion unless you are specifically using it to protect a Character. The reason is this:

1 Champion for 24 pts:
3 Attacks, 1 Wound, 1 Unit Strength

2 Saurus Warrior for 24 pts:
4 Attacks, 2 Wound, 2 Unit Strength

The same amount of points in two Saurus Warriors instead of one Champion will net you +1 Attack, +1 Wound and +1 Unit Strength.

Musician – Cheap. Unless you are very crunched for points, this can be a handy piece. Musicians aren’t terribly powerful, but for the scant points they can make your opponent take a Break test if you tie in combat resolution. And while it really shouldn’t be necessary, the +1 bonus to Rallying attempts is simple icing on the cake. Often a Musician will be taken simply to counter an opponent's Musician in the case of a tie.

Standard – Very worthwhile. Combat Resolution is a huge part of close combat, and that is exactly where your Saurus Warriors are going to be spending their time. Most every Saurus Warrior unit can benefit from a Standard.

Unit Size:

10 Saurus Warriors are required for a unit and the most frequent unit sizes are as follows:

10 – 5 models per rank, 2 ranks. This provides a 125mm front with 20 attacks (assuming spears) and is as cheap as Saurus Warriors come. This provides +1 Combat Resolution due to the second rank.

12 – 6 models per rank, 2 ranks. This provides a very large line at 150mm with a potential of 24 attacks (assuming spears). This unit is going to have a harder time maneuvering than its 5 model wide brother. However, it is also going to be a great stopping block if you are trying to protect units behind it. This provides +1 Combat Resolution due to the second rank.

15 – 5 models per rank, 3 ranks. Same as 10 except a total of +2 Combat Resolution with the additional rank bonus. The major bonus of this unit is that if you take wounds (especially getting to close combat) you will still have two full ranks to fight with. This maintains your 20 attacks.

18 – 6 models per rank, 3 ranks. Same as 12 except a total of +2 Combat Resolution with the additional rank bonus. The major bonus of this unit is that if you take wounds (especially getting to close combat) you will still have two full ranks to fight with. This maintains your 24 attacks.

20 - 5 models per rank, 4 ranks. This provides the maximum total +3 Rank bonus to Combat Resolution. The benefits are very similar to the 15 model unit. Many opposing units will be 20 models in size, allowing this particular unit to not be outnumbered.

Units larger than this are not terribly common. It is often better to split a very large unit of Saurus Warriors into two smaller units. Saurus Warriors tend to have great survivability which counters the need to take a massive unit. In addition, the more front ranks you provide, the more attacks you will be able to make.

Uses:

The Saurus Warrior units form the primary beef of your army. In the very common Hammer and Anvil approach, a Saurus Warrior unit serves as an excellent Anvil. They have good Toughness and Armor and many attacks back. What makes them exceptional at this role is their 8 Leadership combined with Cold Blooded. These ferocious dinosaurs will hold in combat for a very, very long time.

Due to the traits listed above, Saurus Warrior units also make excellent charge recipients. Their slow speed means they usually won’t get a charge in. However, you can set them up to receive a charge and they most likely will still be around afterward to bog that enemy unit down. This allows our potent hitters (see Stegadons or Cold One Riders) to have free range of the battlefield and wreck havoc.

While difficult due to their limited mobility, a small unit of Saurus Warriors also make excellent flankers. Their massive amount of Strength 4 attacks combined with the ability to remove rank bonus means they will grind through enemy units very quickly.

Things to Be Wary Of:

A Saurus Warriors weakest link in close combat is their very mediocre Weapon Skill of 3. Usually their high volume of attacks helps to compensate, but against elite infantry this can be a large handicap. Saurus Warriors excel at holding out, make sure you have something nearby to make the final kill.

With an Initiative of 1, you will always be attacking last (unless you manage a lucky charge). This usually isn’t a major issue due to the great survivability of the Saurus Warrior. However, be very conscious of this fact when fighting very high damage enemies. If you are in combat against a high Strength enemy with multiple attacks, you have to remember that each Saurus Warrior he kills does not get to attack back when it is finally their turn. Again, the answer to this issue is typically to have those Saurus Warriors hold the enemy still while you bring in a strong flank to wipe them out.

Pit of Shades. If this spell is ever attempted against your Saurus Warriors, do whatever it takes to dispel it. Our Initiative of 1 means many, many deaths.

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This information is gathered from many posters' experience. Thanks to Stewart, Barotok, Caneghem, and many others.

Strategies:

From Lounge_Lizard - I personally use mine in 18 large blocks, with a Scar-Vet on Cold One and a frontage of 5 (granting full +3 Rank bonus). The unit gains Fear and 2 Unit Strength but is subject to Stupidity. The Scar-Vet dishes out 6 attacks (Sword of Battle + Maiming Shield or Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent) while maintaining 1+ Armor Save. Needless to say this makes a VERY scary looking anvil.

Spears Vs. Hand Weapons

Spears provide the ability to fight from two Ranks when the unit is stationary. Hand Weapons provide an extra +1 Armor Save in Close Combat.

Spears give the ability to win Combat Resolution from Wound generation, while sacrificing survivability. This means you will see a wider range of results. Hand Weapon and Shield users will see a smaller range of results in combat. However, they won't do better than Spears until being charged by narrow frontage units (monsters, characters, etc) or extremely high armored units (Chaos Knights).

Hand Weapons will increase your survivability of course. This is most important when fighting extremely elite close combat enemies. The more elite the enemy, the more dramatic the survivability difference between Spears and Hand Weapons.

The following information was provided by Caneghem. For this data, the Saurus Warriors are assumed to have been charged. Losses from striking second are calculated.



Caneghem also includes some excellent commentary about the data in his post. Please reference:

http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/saurus-warrior-faq-and-strategy.1819/

FAQ:

1) Can Saurus Warriors assembled with Spears still be fielded as if they just had Hand Weapon, taking WYSIWIG into account?

If you are playing in a strict tournament, then technically this wouldn't be ok. What You See Is What You Get would demand the Spear upgrade. You could still use them as Hand Weapon + Shield (as was discussed above), but you'd still need to technically purchase the Spear upgrade.

Now, if you are playing with friends or in any non-tournament setting, it should be just fine. I'd make a note of telling your opponent before battle (same as anything else that doesn't match WYSIWYG).

Warhammer Fantasy Rulebook page 54 said:

It is usual for all the models in a unit to carry the same weapons. So, a unit will be a unit of Spearmen, a unit of Halberdiers, a unit of Crossbowmen and so on. It is acceptable for a unit to include a minority of models that are differently armed for the sake of a varied and interesting appearance, but the whole unit still counts as being armed as the majority. Where models are varied in this way, it is important that the overall appearance of the unit is not misleading.

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Good summary, I have but two things to add.

A unit of 20 is also fairly common, that way you get full rank bonus and still 10 models attacking plus a couple of extra numbers for outnumbering purposes. 20 is the common size for most armies infantry so you will often face this sized unit.

The real main benefit of a musician is to counter your opponent's musician. Almost everyone takes them, so most people just follow the trend and they end up cancelling each other out in the case of a draw. I would say they are less useful for Saurus since if your opponent wins by 1 point, you have cold blooded at leadership 7 to fall back on and it is likely to pass. Be wary of fear causing units though.

I know that this has been discussed in several other threads, but perhaps bears repeating in light of the need to be complete. I think that there is still room for the HW/SH sarus (IE not buying spears to save points) in situations where the only role of the unit will be to slow an enemy down and hold out. An arguement could be made that a spear sarus can do the same as a HW/SH sarus because they can elect not to use their spears at the start of the combat. Perhaps I should do some math to support this argument before asking for it to be added in. While I am a firm believer in spears, especially in small flanking units, I think that the larger units that are intended to be anvils will hold out longer due to the extra save afforded them without spears. You could think about it this way, if you elect not to use spears in combat you are basically giving up the benefit of 1point/model for the spear upgrade (not giving those points up as victory points but loosing the benefit of them; IE you brought 20 points less of a list). I suppose that depending on your opponent, you'll be able to tell wether you need the benefit from the extra save or if the attacks will benefit you more.

Concerning saurus warriors and spears, I read up on the rules while assembling my own guys a few days back, saw the strength of spears, and elected to assemble them as such because of that.
Now, my question is: can sauruses assembled with spears still be fielded as if they just had hw/sh taking WYSIWIG into account? Considering that it says in the big red that all models are considered to have hw's, even if they're not visible? One could argue that the warriors only use the spears for cultural reasons, and when battle is joined, they draw blades of obsinite!

I personally use mine in 18 large blocks, with a scar-vet on cold one and a frontage of 5 (granting me full rank bonus. The unit gains fear (and stupidity... ), and the scar-vet dishes out 6 attacks (sword of battle + maiming shield, or the scimitar). I use 2, one with spears, the other one with HW&Shield, just for old times sake. Needless to say this makes a VERY scary looking anvil.

Cheers!

Lycanthrope, you absolutely can elect to do this if you field a unit with spears and are accepting a charge from a hefty unit that can dish a lot of damage across your frontage and elect to use HW/SH. My point is, that when you choose to do that, you are essentailly throwing away 1 point per model because you are choosing not to fight with the advantage that spears bring even though you paid the points cost. I'm not trying to make a case that says HW/SH is better than spears. I'm just saying that a true 'anvil' unit will elect to take the HW/SH in situations (however rare) where you will be fighting enemies who can do some damage (IE WoC or some such nonsense).

Thanks for the additional info! I've updated the FAQ to include a unit size of 20 (I felt like I was forgetting something in that section, cant believe I forgot the standard 20!). I also updated the Musician section.

Lounge_Lizard, I'm going to include your strategy in a Strategy section. I have a question though. I'm not sure what you mean by "I use 2, one with spears, the other one with HW&Shield, just for old times sake." Are you taking 2 blocks of Saurus in this setup? Also, please take a look at the Strategies and make sure my editing still expresses exactly what you were trying to say. Editing was basically format based.

Barotok said:

Lycanthrope, you absolutely can elect to do this if you field a unit with spears and are accepting a charge from a hefty unit that can dish a lot of damage across your frontage and elect to use HW/SH.

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I think Lycanthrope was asking if he takes a unit of Saurus Warrior without Spears (so they *only* have Hand Weapon + Shield), is it fine to use the models that have Spears?

My answer would be that it depends on your setting. If you are playing in a strict tournament, then technically this wouldn't be ok. What You See Is What You Get would demand the Spear upgrade. You could still use them as Hand Weapon + Shield (as was discussed above), but you'd still need to technically purchase the Spear upgrade.

Now, if you are playing with friends or in any non-tournament setting, it should be just fine. I'd make a note of telling your opponent before battle (same as anything else that doesn't match WYSIWYG).

What do others think? I'll wait til some more opinions are in before I post a response on the FAQ.

I use two units of 20 with full command often led by a oldblood/scarvet with the Armor that makes him Stupid but gives fear. The look on Vamps faces when They slowly grind their way through a coupla dozen skeletons and come out the other side is priceless.

Grifthin said:

I use two units of 20 with full command often led by a oldblood/scarvet with the Armor that makes him Stupid but gives fear. The look on Vamps faces when They slowly grind their way through a coupla dozen skeletons and come out the other side is priceless.

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You might consider taking a Cold One mount instead of the Hide of the Cold Ones. The Cold One grants Fear, +2 Armor Save, Stupidity and the mount gets to attack. The Hide of the Cold Ones grants Fear, +2 Armor Save, Stupidity and +1 Toughness. The Hide of the Cold Ones is 50 points and the Cold One is 20 points for Scar Vet and 30 Points for Oldblood. And as Lounge_Lizard mentioned, the Cold One mount gives an extra Unit Strength and helps fill in an additional rank.

Barotok said:

I know that this has been discussed in several other threads, but perhaps bears repeating in light of the need to be complete. I think that there is still room for the HW/SH sarus (IE not buying spears to save points) in situations where the only role of the unit will be to slow an enemy down and hold out. An arguement could be made that a spear sarus can do the same as a HW/SH sarus because they can elect not to use their spears at the start of the combat. Perhaps I should do some math to support this argument before asking for it to be added in. While I am a firm believer in spears, especially in small flanking units, I think that the larger units that are intended to be anvils will hold out longer due to the extra save afforded them without spears. You could think about it this way, if you elect not to use spears in combat you are basically giving up the benefit of 1point/model for the spear upgrade (not giving those points up as victory points but loosing the benefit of them; IE you brought 20 points less of a list). I suppose that depending on your opponent, you'll be able to tell wether you need the benefit from the extra save or if the attacks will benefit you more.

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Now I actually think the opposite of this, but it is true that saurus without spears should get some treatment.

I think your large unit should always have spears. They will take a wound or two more than the HW ones depending on what you are facing, but will deal out a lot more attacks that should help tip the combat your way.

Now when you take a small support unit (10 or 12 models) that are meant to get into the flank of whatever the big unit is facing, you think spears while I think leave the spears at home. If you have a large unit of saurus at the front, and a supporting unit charging into the flanks, your static combat res is +5 (3 ranks since his are negated, standards cancel, outnumber and flank charge) on this turn your small unit just charged in so they cannot use the spears anyway. Seriously, what is going to survive longer than the first round against this to allow the flanking unit to ever use their spears? They are far better off with extra armour so they don't lose models, while the ones at the front hit hard with two ranks of spears. If a unit survives that, well I would venture it won't matter what you are equipped with.

This saves you 10 points instead of 20, but IMO it gets the most out of your units and allows them to be most efficient.

I am interested in the numbers now stewart. I think I'll have to do some math and see if one configuration really outshines the other in the (HW/SH vs. spears) issue. You are right about the spears in the flank though. I do not know why I didn't even think about this in the first place.

snowywlf said:

An answer

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You got it snow. Well yeah, friends surely aren't a problem when it comes to disobeying wysiwig, but I can see your point about tournys. In fact, after due consideration, my "cultural" argument to beat the rule was perhaps a bit, asshatty.
"Okay guys my sauruses have spears but when they start fighting they totally throw them away just for lulz!"
I'd vote for an "OK with friends, not so during a strict tourny" answer in the faq. No saving money for me :<

I forgot to mention that in my last post.. Build half of them with hand weapons, and half with spears. If you put the configuration that they are representing in the front two ranks, not even tournies should have any problem with it. I will admit I am not a tournie player though, I imagine as long as it is very obvious and the majority have the right thing (50% ) then you should be right.

Well, just to add some useful info, I ran a few numbers to see once and for all... just when is it better to use shields+hand weapons and when is it better to use spears? The results are in!

Assumptions of the testing...
For these tests, I assumed the saurus warriors were charged by an enemy unit. I figured that if the saurus were the ones charging, you already have a battle plan in mind and you know what sort of weapons you will want to use. But just how nasty of a charge does it need to be in order for it to be better to "turtle up" and drop the spears?

The test was run like this... first, the number of kills scored against the saurus unit was calculated, then this number of casualties was deducted from the number of saurus remaining to attack back. This number times 2 represented the number of attacks back, which were then resolved against the charger. The "net result" is from the lizardmen perspective, so it was found by (enemies killed)-(saurus killed).

Format will be... saurus killed - enemies killed in return - net result

Test 1: Skeleton Warriors 5-across (HW+SH, light armor)
Spearmen (5 wide) - 0.4 - 5.7 - 5.3
Spearmen (6 wide) - 0.4 - 6.9 - 6.5
HW + SH (5 wide) - 0.3 - 2.8 - 2.5

The first test was designed to be unsurprising, obviously the spears gobble up the WS2 skellies by a comfortable margin, while they struggle to do any real damage to the saurus.

Test 2: Black Guard 5-across (Hvy Armor, halberds, reroll misses)
Spearmen (5 wide) - 3.0 - 3.9 - 0.9
Spearmen (6 wide) - 3.0 - 5.0 - 2.0
HW + SH (5 wide) - 2.2 - 1.6 - (-0.6)

At first it looked promising for HW+SH, as only roughly 2 saurus perished to the spearmen's 3.. but then the counterattacks struck home and saw the spearmen through the assault where the HW+SH warriors weren't able to score enough kills to swing things into their favor.

Test 3: Bloodletters 5-across (Killing Blow and 5+ ward accounted for)
Spearmen (5 wide) - 1.9 - 3.6 - 1.7
Spearmen (6 wide) - 1.9 - 4.5 - 2.6
HW + SH (5 wide) - 1.7 - 1.5 - (-0.2)

Same story here as the black guard, though you'll note the number of saurus killed is closer together given the killing blow of the bloodletters and higher strength. Also this demonstrates the superiority of black guard over bloodletters.

Test 4: Chaos Warriors 5-across (HW+SH)
Spearmen (5 wide) - 2.2 - 1.3 - (-0.9)
Spearmen (6 wide) - 2.2 - 1.6 - (-0.6)
HW + SH (5 wide) - 1.7 - 0.6 - (-1.1)

Well now we've got our tough guys up against some nasty foes, the heavily armored (2+) chaos warriors. The saurus lose in any case, and the HW+SH still come out behind the rest. The margin this time however is A LOT closer. I might as well mention at this point that there will be greater variance when using spears than when using shields. Without getting too mathematical, using spearmen will have greater "swings". This is essentially due to the fact that they are counting on more rolls to be "average" than the HW+SH saurus. Since the spears are more reliant on killing the enemy back, things could swing a lot more in your favor or a lot worse in your favor (more dice are rolled overall). On average, it is still slightly better to use spears in this situation. However, say you wanted to hold at all costs... the HW+SH might be a better "sure thing" bet in this case because you'll be working closer to that average of losing by only 1, whereas with spears you might be looking at a bigger combat swing that has the potential to go a lot worse for you, should your spearmen whiff completely.

Test 5: Knights of Chaos 5-across (1+ armor!! str5)
Spearmen (5 wide) - 3.7 - 0.5 - (-3.2)
Spearmen (6 wide) - 3.7 - 0.7 - (-3.0)
HW + SH (5 wide) - 3.0 - 0.2 - (-2.8)

Seems we have found the flipping point! As I suspected, there comes a time when the enemy's defense is just too good for you to be able to count on kills to win. Granted, none of the setups wins in this case, but then again the knights won't have ranks and numbers when all is said and done. Also remember the point above about variance. If you want the more "sure thing", HW+SH is more likely to stay closer to the average than the spear numbers. If you're making a last ditch effort to kill off some knights and want to really risk it, the spears have the greater kill potential, though it means a lot of 1's for the knights' armor saves. Most likely though, you will simply lose more saurus and plink off the armor for the most part. Also, should the chaos player have taken 6 knights instead of 5, the HW+SH gets further ahead of the other setups.

A bit more analysis...
The above tells merely the balance of kills, and that is why the 6-wide saurus seem so vastly superior to the other choices. You have to factor in though, greater points cost and the cost of losing ranks to combat resolution. This just gives a better idea of how much of a benefit can be had by widening the frontage, in terms of kills.

Finally you have to think about opponents which don't make the most of your frontage. I didn't include any here, but there will be times when you are hit by a powerful monster and only 4 or maybe 3 saurus are in contact. This will tend to swing things into the favor of HW+SH, since their advantage is not dependent on maximizing base contact. Then again, maybe there is a squishy or important hero on the back of said monster, and you want to make sure that at least the second rank gets a few "stabs" at him, assuming the front rank is wiped out.

Any thoughts, criticisms, and suggestions for more matchups are welcome.

the second-most elite core infantry in Warhammer Fantasy.

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Whats the first? i think its chaos warriors but i could be wrong

yup chaos warriors, though imo dryads are up there as pretty sweet core too, not to mention being some of my most desired models to paint along with a treeman... they just look so good!

A nice little guide, but i believe this is an error:

For example, if a unit of 10 Saurus Warrior in two ranks of five attack an enemy, they have a total of 20 attacks.

(2 Attacks X 5 models in Rank 1) + (2 Attacks X 5 models in Rank 2) = 20 Attacks

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Spears don't give attacks for the second rank when the unit charges, only if it gets charged or if it is in the seond round of c.

No comments on spears vs. HW+SH data?